Nicole Roth: Finding God’s Love After Tragedy, Shame, and Perfectionism (Part 1/2) | 012

Nicole Roth  She Abides in Joy YouTube Channel:  Nicole Roth | She Abides in Joy - YouTube

Website:  https://nicoleroth.com

Have you ever felt like no matter how hard you try to “get it right” for God, it’s never enough? 

In this powerful episode of The Redeemed Perfectionist, I sit down with Nicole Roth, who shares her raw story of losing her dad to suicide, wrestling with shame, and discovering the freedom of God’s love.

Nicole opens up about:
 ✔️ How grief, fear, and perfectionism nearly consumed her life
 ✔️ Why shame is often the hidden driver behind people-pleasing and performance
 ✔️ The moment she realized intimacy with God mattered more than “checking boxes”
 ✔️ How God’s perfect love began to heal her heart and bring joy again

This is Part 1 of our conversation—and you don’t want to miss it. If you’ve been weighed down by shame, striving, or the fear of never being enough, this episode will remind you of the hope and healing found in Jesus.

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Transcript

Nicole Roth: Finding God’s Love After Suicide, Shame, and Perfectionism (Part 1/2)

Leneé Pezzano: She lost her dad to suicide. Her world was shattered overnight. She went from a vibrant, healthy woman to a shell of herself fatigued, anxious, and desperate for hope. But that dark season became the doorway to freedom. Hey, sis. Welcome to today's episode of the Redeemed Perfectionist, where I talk with Sister Nicole Roth, whose very story went from thinking she was pleasing God by checking all the boxes, yet having no intimacy where shame was driving her whole life, and she didn't even know it.
To a place where God's perfect love obliterated her fear. We uncover how shame sneaks into our perfectionism and people pleasing and performance, and how God wants to bring deep healing and lasting joy.

 
[00:01:00] So if you're somebody who's felt the pressure to do it all right, but still feel like you are not enough, I promise you this conversation is for you.

 
 Leneé Pezzano: Nicole Roth, welcome to the Redeemed Perfectionist. It's so good to have you. I cannot, oh my gosh. Wait for today. I just can't wait so much. so glad to be here. Yeah. You know, it's, uh, just for the listener's sake, I will say this, it was a Divine appointment when the Lord connected Nicole and myself.
Mm-hmm. And. It was through a beautiful community of women entrepreneurs and then. A mutual friend, connected us and we mm-hmm. It was one of those moments, you get on screen, you get on a zoom call and iron sharpens iron. Yes. And sparks begin to fly. Yeah. And

 
[00:02:00] we just knew we were sisters for life but I think what was so pivotal, Nicole, for me was, the season when we were talking and I was just wrestling with what are the next steps that God's gonna have me do? and you, because of where you've walked, you knew you could see into my life and you just gently nudged me to say, Hey, why don't you think about taking this course that I created that, all the things, right. And it was like one of those things I didn't know I needed until I took it. And it was really during that time when you put to words for me what was blocking my freedom mm-hmm. That I didn't even, I just didn't know. I didn't have the revelation yet.

Yeah. And so what I am so excited about for this conversation is that. Now together we can take that revelation that now we both have, right? Yes. And we can generate awareness for our listeners and mm-hmm. Potentially lead them down a path 

[00:03:00] that will bring freedom to them as well. So, absolutely. So we're, we're gonna get into that.

We're gonna get into that. I'm just as a little hook right now for you. Yes. But, um, but let's, let's start with this. Nicole. Take us back. Take us back to the moment. Where did this all begin for you?  

Nicole:  So it really began in 2005 when I lost my dad to suicide. And up until, you know, I had a, a great childhood, rocky things.

Of course, everybody's got their issues, but it wasn't until that moment when things really fell apart in my life. This, uh, really what I call a house of cards. I was saved, I was walking with the Lord, but. I did not understand grace. I did not understand letting go. I didn't understand surrender. I was just the proverbial type, a oldest daughter, workaholic, and I took that into my relationship 

[00:04:00] with God, which didn't go so well. But I thought it was doing all right. I thought I was, and everything was fine until that moment. Everything really. I fell apart. I lost my health overnight, and so I was a formerly vibrant, healthy person, and I became a shell of the woman that I was. And so I couldn't even walk across our home without extreme dizziness.

I lost a ton of weight. I couldn't assimilate food any longer. I was extremely fatigued and filled with anxiety. I mean, there was just so much going on and I became. Desperate. And if you are a listener who knows what I'm talking about, whether. that was a loss of a loved one, or a job loss or a, a loss of a child or whatever that thing was that really brought you to the end of yourself.
God is never in the midst of those circumstances to 

[00:05:00] set them up, but he always brings good things. And so for me, that was the start of if you've been into therapy, the onion. The onion. We love the onion. And so I'm like, okay, God, let's do this. Let's go to counseling. Let's do the thing. I'm gonna overcome this grief.

And the Lord's like, yeah, we're gonna have to actually go back to your childhood. Darn. Okay. Uh, why? Well, and I love right there, just right there as a, as a former perfectionist, uh, I can hear, like, I can relate. I don't care what the details are. My details are a little different, but man, as soon as you know the problem, you're like, let's go. We're gonna solve this. And like, boom, you take off and you, you, you think, you know the formula and God's like, uh. Nope. Nope. We're still gonna do it my way. You're gonna learn to surrender. It's okay. I'm gonna overlook that right now, but, right. So good. He's so 

[00:06:00] good. So good. Yeah. So yeah, so then it began this process of uncovering things from my childhood, especially rejection from peers.
And it wasn't like I had forgotten about it. It was, it was extremely painful, but I just. Kind of shoved it under that ginormous rug that we many of us have, and just thought, Ugh, that was when I was a kid. What's the big deal? But as I started to really look into that and with the Lord realized that was Trump, very traumatic, actually.

I lost all of my friends overnight to a rumor that I didn't even say. And I was such a quiet, shy girl. I didn't speak up for myself. I didn't say, I didn't say that, and I didn't get help from an adult, including my parents because it was, the rumor was adult in nature. And so it left me alone, completely alone.
Felt like I was alone in the world, and I would. Come home every day from school and I, 

[00:07:00] I was so sad, like I would cry myself to sleep every night for months and months and didn't tell anybody what was going on. And so it really wasn't until all the way into college actually, in the such divine circumstances.
My husband, now, Dave. He was the, the first person to hear my story after all those years. I never shared it with one soul. And on this particular retreat, he was the, the dad. And there, you know, there was the, the, the two leaders, a female and a male, and a. They were like the parents of this little family group.
And here I was, I finally felt safe enough to share that story. So, so to be clear, from a timeline perspective, so much of the, the defining moments were happening before you even met him. Is that right? Oh yeah, absolutely. So you weren't, you weren't married yet, that's really No, we. No, we had just met, so I shared that weekend and we 

[00:08:00] didn't even date until probably five or six years later.
Like we just were friends. We were friends. Gotcha. For all those years and across moves all the way across the country. I mean it, God is so, I. Specific, I, you can't make this stuff up. That's, that's all I got. That's all I got. But yeah. So amazing. Yeah. So you felt safe to share it with him? Mm-hmm. And what was that like?
What did that feel like for you? how was that maybe a, a defining moment? Was it Dr? Oh my gosh, it was so huge. Yeah. I came back from that weekend, that was sophomore year of, of college, and I didn't realize how. Uh, I was dealing with a lot of loneliness, a lot of, again, that self-rejection I carried from childhood.
It affects us if we don't deal with it, even though I didn't think it was an issue. Uh, but I came back to my dorm and I opened my closet and I remember looking in my closet and every single thing I had in my closet was black. And I was like, I felt like I felt the 

[00:09:00] difference of I was becoming this new person.
I felt hope. Wow. And it, it was such a stark contrast. I was like, yeah, I'm done with that. I don't, that's not, that's not who I am anymore. So I got rid of those clothes. I started fresh. It was a significant turning point. And I got involved with that ministry on campus and became a leader. And, and I was encouraging.
So like you, you, up to that point, life had been just full of death for you. Black represents death. Yeah. And now God was bringing color mm-hmm. To your life, and you were so good. Oh, that's so sweet. Oh, wow. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Okay. So you get involved in ministry and then what? Yeah. So anyhow, so yeah, that was really the, the whole, the.
You know, that first initial sharing, but still I had really shoved it under that big rug. So it wasn't until I lost my dad, you know, fast forward several years that I really thought, okay, I 

[00:10:00] actually have to deal with this now. You know? Yes. I started the process, which that is always the best thing to find one person that is a safe person that you can share whatever the thing is, and that that breaks that shame. It breaks the silence, and it, it's that, that's the first step, whether that's a counselor or a friend, or a pastor or a loved one. It, it is so huge to be able to open our mouths and share it. God knew what he was doing when he said, carry one another's burdens, right?

Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So then your dad. Uh, your dad and your health, I mean, your world. Just a storm, like everything collides. Absolutely. That was terrible. Yeah. And my poor husband, I can't imagine husband, we, we were only married for a little while, so the poor guy, Aw. We had gotten pregnant six weeks after we got married. Mm. And then moved to a new city. He took a job as an attorney and then, so we 

[00:11:00] had a baby, we had this new job, new city. And then I lost my dad. Not just to regular death, but to suicide. And of course we didn't see it coming. And so, yeah, poor man. Wow. We call that Nicole Big T Trauma. We call that Big T trauma.
Absolutely. Absolutely. Oh my gosh. And so I guess. When you had that moment of, oh my gosh, I now know, I know in my knower that I now have to face this. What's the, what's the first step you took to do that? So, I tried counseling and I know I didn't try very hard. I went to a couple different people and I don't wanna.
Make this blanket statement that this was for everybody, for me, it wasn't a fit. And the Lord led me to something different and it's called manual prayer journaling, but it was something that I could do on my own and basically do counseling with God directly. 

[00:12:00] It's created by trauma therapist and that process was.
Absolutely such a defining moment for me because, or season I should say. It wasn't a moment, it was about a year long actually. I went into my secret place and I just. Cried for, for a good, at least a good year, and processed all this stuff from, from the pain of my childhood and then of course losing my dad.
But the nice thing about this particular process was, for one, it was free and I could do it whenever I was needing that help. And so it could be one in the morning, it could be, you know, whatever. That, that struck that time when I felt like I need to really unload some things. And of course, the Lord is always willing and available to sit with us in our pain and our grief and just so amazing.
And so basically that process rewired, I know this 

[00:13:00] is the, the buzzword of rewired my brain, but it literally rewired my brain because I really wasn't. In a place of trust of the Lord. I kept him at arm's length. I was unsure about his intentions for me, and I really was afraid, honestly, to fail him. And I know we, we can relate with this whole perfectionism thing, so listeners will probably relate to that, but I.
Really wanted nothing more than to please the Lord, but I was terrified of what he might ask of me when I really got quiet. And so instead of that, I kinda created a loophole. Ha. Where if I, if I just stick with like the devotionals, that I just check the box and I do my reading plan and I do all these things, but I actually don't commune with the Lord.
I don't actually open my heart. I don't really hear from heaven. I'm good. I can just check my 

[00:14:00] list and feel like I'm doing all the things and he must be so proud of me. But really there was no intimacy. There was no real connection. And so this process brought me into that place of real. Connection and the fact that he met me in that place of pain and rejection and shame and all the things that I was bringing up from the stuff from my childhood, it, again, it rewired my brain to his love rather than that place of fear or worrying what he was gonna, um, say or, you know, ask me to do if I really got quiet and asked.

Actually asked. I didn't wanna know who's like, you might make me move to Africa. I dunno if I'm ready for that. Yeah. So, so it was almost like, it's kind of hard to explain, but I get it. It's like you, it was safe enough in that you had a program, if you will, that you could follow. Like you had a protocol and that 

[00:15:00] protocol was allowing you, it was giving you permission to release all this pain, all this trauma, and by the principles of God, it was opening the floodgates.

Like I tell my clients a lot when you release and you express all that's been bottlenecked. Mm-hmm. And you let it out, he. You got the spirit in you. He's now allowed to be released. And so you were tapping into life. Mm-hmm. You were tapping into him at a level that was bringing freedom, yet, you could keep your distance from him. That's how I hear it. Well, the distance was before I found that process and after, you know, the intimacy that was obliterated, the need to, to keep my arm up and to kind of keep that distance was being obliterated by his love because Gotcha. Part of the perfect love was casting out the fear.
Casting out the fear. Yes, absolutely. Yes. That's exactly what 

[00:16:00] happened. That's awesome. Yeah. And part of this process is. it's a journaling process, but part of it is, uh, basically re you know, like writing out these sentences. Um, it's, it, it is kind of prescriptive, but it really, worked for me because part of the process is after you do this whole journaling exercise, you read it out loud.

Part of, and there's science behind it, which I love the book that goes with that. You don't have to read it to understand, but, uh, it's called Joy in the Journey. Jim Wilder and several other authors wrote it, but they, they share about the science behind this. But when you verbally say out loud, one of the steps is essentially.
You know, you're, you met me in the, in this place of my pain. You, you get it, Lord. Uh, I'm paraphrasing, but you know, you, you are with me in my weaknesses and as I'm saying that out loud as if God is speaking over me. It 

[00:17:00] changed things. That's what really started to change my brain and my heart. And so he became So you were being transformed by the renewing of your mind. Absolutely. Yeah. Uh, so he became a safe place where he was not that before. That's right. That's right. And, you know, one of the things that I'm enjoying in the body of Christ as I see God working through the masses right now and in the masses is, I mean, yeah, you know, there are some buzzwords right now like rewiring the brain and neuroscience and you know, all the things.

But the bottom line is to me, this is, uh. This is the getting understanding that scripture speaks of this is the transformed by the renewing of the mind. And if you don't get understanding, if you, you, you know, none of us, my, I've been walking with the Lord almost 30 years. I've never been able to just flip a switch and Oh yeah. Now I've, now I'm transformed. It's a journey. Mm-hmm. It's a process. Yes. Mm-hmm. It's an absolute process. And God is 

[00:18:00] a, a detailed kind of God. I mean, he will sometimes perform surgeries that, get very detailed and get in there because the toxicity goes so deep and he's really gotta get in there and clean it out completely.
Yeah. So that you're free, so Yeah. Yeah. And then when you're free, it's, watch out a whole new world. It's a whole new world. So what, what would you say, and I think I know your answer, but. You do all this work and there was clearly a theme that was coming out of this for you and, and I feel like it's the one thing that as we shed light on it.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. The enemy's gonna be so angry because Absolutely. It's foundational to healing, it's foundational to everything we do from here on out, so. Mm-hmm. What would you say that theme has been? Joy. Well, and joy joy's the result of dealing with this 

[00:19:00] particular foundational thing. Yes. What is it? So, yeah, it's, it's shame.
It's dealing with the shame that we all have felt. So for me that was, that, that place of rejection, the lies of condemnation that come and so the reason that whole process and I really felt not to scare anybody or, you know, intimidate anybody into going. Toward healing, but I felt like I was going backwards for many months.
Mm mm I mean, I was like, how is this getting me better as I felt? I'm crying so many tears, but it was, it was getting me, it was doing its work. It just was very difficult to go, to go there. But yes, facing that, the pain of shame, which basically says you're alone in the world. You whatever the lie is, you don't matter, you're unlovable. Um, that, that fear that we have deep down inside. That we are bad, that people 

[00:20:00] don't love us, that we're gonna be on our own. That's the essence of shame. And so coming face to face with that and having the Lord heal, that was absolutely revolutionary and yeah, absolutely joy is a result.
How do you, was there a moment when. You knew to call it shame. How did you know to call it shame? Oh gosh. So that was very interesting. I remember so distinctly, the Lord kept calling me to, specifically to share my story of rejection. And it was so specific at 2018, I was at a conference and he, uh, the whole weekend it was a business conference, it was called Declare Great, great event for women of faith who have a message. Well, at the time I hadn't written a book. I didn't have, I didn't have anything. I was like, okay, God, I'll, he told me to go to this thing. Okay, so I went, and the whole thing, they could have been talking about SEO or it could have been a worship song.

[00:21:00] It didn't matter what the topic was. The Holy Spirit was saying, I want you to share your story of rejection on video. And I'm like. Yeah, no thanks. Back to the conference. And so at the end of the whole weekend, he, you know, as he does so gently but firmly, kept inviting me and I finally gave him a yes.
And so I left that conference. I started buying video equipment and going, what does this look like? I don't know what you're calling me to Lord, but around that time. I was introduced to, the TED Talks that Brene Brown did about shame, and I remember to this day, I've got my journal when I, I watched those two TED talks and I was sobbing.

I mean, I was even the one, uh, where she talks about the definition of courage, that the root of that is Kerr. And it said it, she said it was to share your story with your whole heart. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, I know 

[00:22:00] you want me to share my storyline that I, um, and, and just in understanding this whole idea of shame, I didn't think I had any shame also around that time. Christine Kane's book came out, uh, Unashamed and I remember again thinking, eh, that's not, you know, I, I know I have a lot of issues, especially Fear was a top of my list. Um, but I didn't think shame was a, a problem at all. And so I saw there was some class at church, but they were gonna be going through this book, and I'm like, yep, pass over that one.

Like, that's, that's not a thing for me. And the Lord's like, yeah, we're gonna need to take another look at this. And here, come to find out, it was literally driving my whole life. I had no clue. So that's the very tricky and very interesting thing about shame. I can't find anything else actually in our lives that is so insidious, uh, where people really are convinced that 

[00:23:00] they don't have this issue when it could literally be driving their whole lives. You know, I don't, I just think that's amazing, right? Yeah. Uh, because it look at. It's so interesting Satan's strategy, and you and I have talked about when shame entered the world mm-hmm. It was when Adam and Eve and the fall occurred. Mm-hmm. They, they had not previously known they were naked. Right. And then shame enters the minute sin entered.

Mm-hmm. And they immediately knew they were naked. Mm-hmm. And they couldn't face the Lord. Yeah. And it's like, and then. It's rampant that we live our lives as human beings and our culture in particular where we're, we don't wanna get naked. No way, man, rejection. Mm-hmm. No way. I'm gonna cover up, I'm gonna self preserve, I'm gonna hide, I'm gonna do whatever I need to do.

[00:24:00] Yeah. Because of shame. But we don't even know to call it shame, right? It's so wild to me. It is. Yeah. Mm. Like imposter syndrome, all these things. We've got all these labels. I'm like, let's just call it what it is. It's shame, it's shape. It, it, it, deal with it. At least the root. The root and the tree. It's a shame tree.
Wow. Wow. how does it manifest? What are some ways it shows up? You, you named a few imposter syndrome, you know, fear. That's been, that's been like the story of my life. But what is the belief system? What are some of the ways? The self-talk. Mm-hmm. at a subconscious level we're believing mm-hmm. That it's like, I remember somebody, I forget who I was reading, you know, but we, we tend to say instead of, naming the behavior that we did that might have been off.
We actually call ourselves that thing, you know? So Yeah. And I lied versus I am a liar. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know that there's a two different, very different.statements. So what are some 

[00:25:00] ways we can help the listener identify shame in their life? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So the really, the biggest way that I have seen this play out in my own life and in others, is I put them into a bucket of three P's. Mm-hmm. Performance, perfectionism and people pleasing. And so the other thing that we can really raise our antenna up if we're using the word, should we start to should on ourselves. That I, I love, that's a, call out to Elisa Keaton from  Revelation Wellness. She talks about that a lot. Mm-hmm. But really, you should be farther along, Leneé.
You've been a Christian for this long, you should be wherever and you should be. Whatever that, that sense of should it's shame. Period. Yeah. Yeah. Like always. So you should know better. That's that the enemy love. He knows the word. He knows our buttons as far as being believers and 

[00:26:00] especially walking with the Lord for decades, and those buttons can be really loud of you should have things figured out by now. You should not be sinning. you should know better. You should be a better evangelist. You should be reading your Bible more like all those. Things that sound holy when they're placed under that pressure. It's not from the Lord. Period. And I thought it was every morning I had. Just this sense of I'm not doing enough.

I mean, I was working my head off trying to please this seemingly unpleasable God, but every morning I had the messages, you should be reading the Bible this much. You should be whatever the thing was. Witnessing more, praying more, and again. God, of course calls us to those things.

Yes. It's where that should message comes and that pressure and the shame. That's when we know this is not from the Lord. Yeah, but I didn't know that. Yeah. I kept listening to this 

[00:27:00] voice every day and it was a combination of the enemy and myself, honestly. Yeah. Yep. I'm, I was doing a lot of the bidding for the enemy would give me a little bait and I'm like, take that all in. So, yeah, the pressure. So much pressure. Yeah. So if you're feeling pressure and you can identify, maybe you've not. Labeled these behaviors with this, this terminology yet, but to have that sense of pressure that everything has to be just right or else I can't launch. You know, if you're in a, if you're in business for instance, that's perfectionism and the people pleasing you should.

Say Yes, Lenee' to every single thing that comes your way. You've got to be godly to be like Jesus. You should say yes to that volunteer opportunity because they need you by golly, no. Oh, and and how about, you know, let's not even talk about leaders who are 

[00:28:00] not allowed to be weak or struggle. Oh, absolutely. And they have to have all the answers. Absolutely. You should have all the answers. It's such a, it's such a crock. Yeah. Well, you know, and again, like this is where again, I talk. Clients listen, um, where the authentic is, there's always gonna be a counterfeit. Absolutely. And when you think about it, think about that. Like if you're, if you go out and you buy a counterfeit purse mm-hmm. That, that you think is the real deal, it sure is gonna look right and smell and absolutely taste and touch, right? Like the real thing. And so. You remove the spirit and what you have is religion. Yes, that's right. And that's the religious spirit.

Mm-hmm. And it's, it can look real close, but be Oh yeah. A whole different spirit behind it. Absolutely. Yes. Oh my gosh. And you were. a leader in the church? what was that like to transition out of that baby? Gosh, or, yeah. Well, I was also leading a homeschool community. That's 

[00:29:00] a whole other thing my, so I didn't really talk about this third P of performance, but for me, that wound of rejection from childhood really drove.
I wouldn't, I don't, I'm not gonna say led because. The spirit of the Lord leads us, but the enemy drives us. Mm. So I was driven to performance. I had to be the best at everything. My grades had to be the best. I had to get, you know, magna cum laude in college, which I came so close, uh, from missing that. And I, you would have thought that the world was ending.

I mean, it was so devastating. I put every. Bit of my identity into my performance. And so I, again, I thought things were great. I was leading this group and everyone thought it was hunky dory. I got a lot of accolades. I got the applause that I wanted, and people praised me for how the, the group was being led, this homeschool program. Well, one day I got my, uh, the knee, my knees knocked out from under me 

[00:30:00] in the best way. I was on. Field trip with this group. And one of the moms said, Hey, can I speak to you? And I said, sure. I had no guard up. I had thought everything was great, so Sure. So we go over and have this conversation and in about 10 minutes she shared the way that you're leading, Nicole is making people, women feel like they're not good enough, they can't measure up to your standards. And I'm like, wait, what? What are you talking about? Wow. And so I left, I thanked her and I gathered my children and I drove home and I. Sobbed all the way home. And I was so mortified. I thought, I never wanna see any of these families ever again. This is so humiliating. And so I started asking the hard questions to my mom and my husband and another, uh, really sweet friend in the group of, is this what you see in my life?

And they all were like. Yeah. Yep. Spot on. Yeah, yeah, exactly right. Wow. So it, it was, I was completely blindsided. I had no, I had no idea. 

[00:31:00] Now the, I shouldn't say that The Lord had started speaking to me. Yeah. He told me at one, uh, one rare quiet time moment that I had to cease striving, and I'm like, woo. I. Speak like that. Who? That was you, God. Right, right. Okay. But it was like, okay, thanks. I'm gonna go back to my thing now, you know? Right. And keep living my life the way it was. So that moment really. Like knock the wind outta my sails, but it was the best thing that could have ever. I've thanked her so many times for that, that moment, because it led me on a totally different trajectory. I actually stepped down from that role. I went before my group and I was like, I don't know what this looks like, but I know that the Lord's calling me into this place of surrender and letting things go. And that's horrifying to me, but I'm willing to learn and so I let. I let all of it go and I left and it was so hard.
But we, the Lord took us on a journey, my girls included. 'cause they needed to heal because I was driving them so 

[00:32:00] hard. Yeah. With their schooling and performance. Uh, because that's what we do as leaders. Yeah. We don't, if we have not had that revelation of grace yet for ourselves and surrender, that's all we know to do is to drive everyone else around us. So Yeah. Task master. Yeah. Right. Task master. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So yeah, just all that unraveling of all of that performance and work holism, but, but again, it was all rooted in shame. So, oh my gosh. We could, I could talk to you for hours about this stuff. And I know, I know the listeners are probably, some are probably listening to this driving and crying right now and going, oh my gosh, I need more. I need more. Yes. Um, and the one thing that I think is important for our listeners to understand is. That transitioning into, um, a place of surrender mm-hmm. Does not mean we give up our strength. We give up 

[00:33:00] our fleshly operating in our strength as if to perform for the Lord because he's demanding it. But we, you know, it's that Proverbs 31 woman, we are strong women and the Lord is just, he will take and he will channel that strength so that it is. Properly submitted to him, put on the altar, and you know, we're then led by him, but we come out. super strong women on the other side of it. Yeah. Yeah. It's really interesting. I really, I believe the lie for so long that if I truly surrendered, because I'm a, I'm a doer, I'm a, I'm a go-getter. I've always come, been a leader.
I, and I'm out in the chart like, come on everybody, let's do this. Come on. So I really thought if I really, truly surrendered that I would be bored to tears. I didn't know that he could actually. You, like you're saying, use my gifting, use how he created me, but just without all the flesh and all the need 

[00:34:00] to be in the center of the throne and all of that where I was living before. But he'll, absolutely, he did not make a mistake with you. Um, and the way that he's designed you, whether you are that woman who's out in the front leading the charge, or if you're back in the. Back serving your heart out, like he's created you beautifully. It's just going to look differently. That place of surrender we get to, I, I, I say in my program, I love to see women who are my former self, the ones that are out front that need to be, you need, need to have all the applause.
They learn to rest. They learn how to not have to be the one. Yes, he's still gonna use your gifts. He's still gonna, uh, you know, Work through you, but then the women that are kind of on the sidelines, it's been in the background serving away, uh, he will often allow them to start to rise up and to fill roles that they didn't think that they could participate in or be a part of. And so 

[00:35:00] I absolutely, I was like, I'm like, get my popcorn out and watch what's going on on bleachers, because this is the best thing. So yeah, from that place of surrender, the, the women, you know, that need to rise up, they rise. And the ones that need to rest, they sit down and it's, yes. So beautiful. Ugh. Like. Everybody starts to find their lane and mm-hmm. You know, and this is, this is what he speaks of in Ephesians where he's building a house. Mm-hmm. Right. And um, and it's compacted, it says by that which every joint supplies. Mm-hmm. Yes. And we all have to find our mm-hmm. Lanes so that we can Yes. Understand how we're supplying the kingdom. Absolutely. That's being built. Oh, it is so beautiful. I, yes. I'd love to share a quick story that, yeah, do. It happened just recently, so. I was just on Tim Ross's podcast, which was insane opportunity. I mean, it's just, it's such a God story. But I had an

[00:36:00] in-person event, here locally and so we had 25 women And we celebrated. It was the long, like the watch party and then we did dinner and it was just a whole thing. I felt like the Lord said celebrate. I'm like, okay. So we did and it was so amazing, but I was mortified. my family was the caterer. 'cause we were trying to do this on a budget because you know, all the things. So they were cooking all the food and we were the show. We didn't have any other people. So we, here's the Roth family coming. Well, we were late. The food was, I mean, it was like complete disaster. Like everything that could and go, could go wrong was going wrong. And in the midst of all of this, as we're, getting upset with each other. And my, my oldest daughter, she's like, mom, isn't this supposed to be about joy? You know. So we get there. Finally, I'm repenting. I'm like, Lord Jesus, like you, you do your thing. You were the one that told me to do this thing, 

[00:37:00] and I, Leneé, I swear this was part of his divine plan. You just, again, you can't make this stuff up. We get there and we're late. Like we did not have enough time to get set up. The banners weren't hung, the thing, I mean, it just wasn't done. So our guests start arriving and I'm like, this is completely embarrassing, humiliating, whatever. And guess what happened next? They all started helping. They started pitching in. They were putting the banners up. They were putting the tablecloths out. Like I was in tears. It was so incredible. It blessed my heart like so much, but I'm like, this is the body. Like this was supposed to happen. This is what needed to happen. Yes, and we got to see women's. Giftings rise up, you know? Yes. Once this became the photographer and the other one like, she's like, oh, I love Legos. Like I'll, I'll figure this banner thing, you know, out. I'm like, you go girl. Like I love you. Thank you. But it all came together. Aw. And we all got to use our gifts. It wasn't 

[00:38:00] Nicole Shiny, whatever. That's not, no, absolutely not. And so I was, I, when I. I had my friend Sky with the mc and I prayed as we started the event.
I was so emotional I could be barely get through the prayer because God had just healed in me so much in that 20 minutes of chaos when everything seemed to be falling apart. It was like, no, this is exactly where this needs to be to, to. The, the women shine and to let their gifts rise. Yeah. I was like, come on, Lord, this is so good. It's so good. I'm so, so grateful. Yeah, and you know, the other thing that, that whole thing speaks to me back to the performance thing, right? Like we, especially if those listening are in the corporate realm, that where we are just saturated with the need to perform. Mm-hmm. You know, people want authenticity. Yeah. And they need to know you're human. Right? Yeah. We show up and we think we gotta have 

[00:39:00] the atmosphere a perfect way. Right. And all all the things on the outside. Yeah. And they just want the heart. And they know your heart. You know? They know you and, yeah. Oh and plus then they, yeah, to your point, they got to shine. Like that is just, it was awesome. It was amazing. Was so great. Like, thank you Lord. You're so good. Amazing. Well, and so Nicole, talk more I think about like how, so that that begins to demonstrate how your relationship with women around you began to change and how you walked, started walk differently.
Walking differently in leadership. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. How did your relationship start to change with your family? Oh my gosh. Oh, so huge. Well, for one, I mean, my girls, this was years, years and years ago, so I needed to repent to all three of them of my striving and just driving. So we really began, I remember.
Yeah, just, just so much, so much repentance, so 

[00:40:00] much starting fresh, starting new. And it was so beautiful. The Lord led us away from the, the classical model that we were, participating in at the time. And we did something called Charlotte Mason, and that is literally, we had baskets in laundry, baskets of books by the water. We'd take our hammocks. I mean, for real, like we. We lived it out. It was like little House in the Prairie, but we, it was such a sweet season of healing for all of us because we all needed that healing, um, from the Lord. And so he, he did it through this, this whole process. And I like to laugh about, I call this my homesteading phase, my poor husband again.
Yeah. I mean, we went all in, like I gotta. Spinning wheel. We had angora rabbits. I mean, now we're like, we were doing the thing. We raised rabbits, you know, my, literally my poor husband. So, um, but it was so healing 'cause there was no pressure. The pressure was off. It was such an 

[00:41:00] invitation to just enjoy good literature and just to spend, you know, snuggle in these hammocks and just read for hours by the, by the lake. So that was so incredible. Um, and I'm so grateful to the Lord for providing that whole season because we all healed of that, uh, that yeah, that drivenness and the performance and all that junk. Wow. That's amazing. So for the listener, uh mm-hmm.

I may not, I probably need to say this upfront, but we are doing a two part series, like we can't get all the goodness in just one, one hour. So this is gonna be a two part series. And so let's, let's set up part two. Mm-hmm. the transition here. Mm-hmm. and start to come away from the origin story and all the things.
Yeah. And let's talk about. Your titleas it's out there today. What are you known for now, Nicole? Yeah, so the 

[00:42:00] Lord told me I was a joy coach, which I thought was hilarious. Like, what is that? Sounds fun, but yeah. And the thing I really wanna impress, uh, to the listener as well, this was years ago when I started a business.
It's still my business name called she abides in Joy. But it was when I was really starting to learn how to abide, how to do this thing of surrender. And so my former self, I've got all the, thank God you wanna come with me on my great ideas. Like, are you gonna join me? This is gonna be amazing. And now it's like, yeah, I got nothing. So what do you got? So I was in that, that process of just learning, which I will be on for the rest of my life. But I said, God, I want you to name this business, so you name the business. And he said she abides in joy. And I thought that is hilarious because it's a lie. Like it was completely a lie. And this was just a few years ago. It wasn't. 10 years ago. It was like seven 

[00:43:00] years ago. And so I'm like, okay, well the funniest thing is it was a product based business. I did, uh, sublimation printing, lettering, scripture lettering and things. And so I had mugs and t-shirts and stuff. So inevitably I would have to call these companies to order more supplies and they would say, what's your business name?

And I'm like She Abides in Joy like that seems like such a farce. I'm like, Lord, you are so ridiculous. but he was, you know, calling what be not as though it already was. Yes. And I am so grateful that he does that for us, and that's what we need to do, not only for ourselves, but others in our lives, especially those who are married able to call up into your children, call up and out what God sees in them that's not there yet because that's what he does for us. And so I started to act as though I started to speak it out even though I didn't want to. and then over time that became my identity. And so just encourage you to ask the Lord, 

[00:44:00] who did you make me to be? And if it sounds like completely the opposite of who you are, be like. That's probably it. Then let's go with that. Right. Come on. I know I can remember when he called me to write a book and then I'm like, you want me to do what? And then, you know, he wanted me to write a book on perfectionism. Mm-hmm.

As he was revealing to me that I had a problem with perfectionism and I'm like. Wait, you want me to write to the world? Yeah. Something. I'm only just beginning to understand myself. Yeah. Listen God is multidimensional. Absolutely. And he's so sovereign in what he does and he's looking for you to just give him your Yes.
Yes. And the rest is faith. And this is, this is how we are to walk. And so. we can confidently say that Nicole Roth, the Joy Coach now, basically like what is, how would you sum up in your one sentence, you know, what your mission statement is, what you do? Yeah. The Lord just gave 

[00:45:00] this to me a few, uh, a few weeks ago, actually after, again, sidebar, five years of being in business. He just told me my statement, so don't despair if that's you. Amen. Um, but he said he, he said, I serve God-preneurs, which I had never heard that phrase before. I love that female-preneurs to empower them to transform shame into joy, and lies into love through a revelation of grace. Yes. Turning shame into joy through a revelation of grace. Yes. And of course, that, like you, is where the story unfolds for me. Mm-hmm. all of my journey with the Lord nearly 30 years. I loved obedience. Give me the rules. Mm-hmm. Let me follow 'em. I can do that. Right. And then, yeah. Um, and yet not have any intimacy with it. Right. And so that scripture, the perfect love casts out. Mm-hmm. Fear. Fear brings absolutely. Torment. Yes. Right. And so, absolutely. I was 

[00:46:00] always obeying the Lord out mm-hmm. Of a fear of punishment. Yes. And when he began to bring the revelation of grace Yes. I thought it was a counterfeit. Yes. And so that's a, it does whole thing. Well, what I'm excited about, Nicole, is that. Next week's episode, we're gonna dive into what does it mean to be a joy coach? Mm-hmm. And the revelation of grace and what that looks like, and some of the tools and things you have to offer. I cannot wait. Absolutely. To, to, so fun. Any final thoughts for round one? Uh, before we sign off? Just an encouragement, even though it might seem scary, we didn't really sell this whole thing of going towards your pain.

But it's worth it whether you go and find a counselor, whether you do whatever other thing that the Lord leads you to. We're gonna talk next time about the joy quotient and this tool that the Lord has provided. But whatever it is, go there. Go toward the pain because that 

[00:47:00] is your path to freedom. Yeah.And it might not feel great. It might not be easy, but it's so worth it. And especially if you are a leader, if you're a mother. You know, we all are leading somebody. If we don't do that work, we're sabotaging the next generation of their freedom because they can climb on the, you know, on the backs of what we go towards. So it's worth it, especially mamas go and go and dive into this work. Yeah. Yeah. And get free so that your children are not having to wrestle the same that we have. Um, It's huge. Yeah. I love to be able to take real life experience, bring it back to scripture. Mm-hmm. So that we can understand the practical translation there, right? Yes. And so as you're speaking, I think about, and I tell again, I tell my clients all the time, there is no resurrection without the cross. That's right. Right. But be confident of this, that. If you are 

[00:48:00] going through the cross, and we, none of us are above our master scripture says, right? The cost of grace was not a cheap payment. Right? It cost absolutely. It cost his life and, and it's gonna cost ours, but we get resurrection on the other side. See? Yes. Absolutely. That's the difference. Yes. The resurrection's coming. It's so worth it. I'm honored Sister to know you, to have you be a part of this community and this journey, and I just, I look forward to, the next episode.
Yes. Thank you so much, friend. Yay. Until next time. Until next time.
 [Music]
How powerful was that? I just wanna thank Nicole for being so vulnerable and sharing her story with us today. I have to believe you felt the weight of those words, and I pray that it sparks hope in your own healing journey, but since this was only part one Next time Nicole and I are going even deeper as we shared, we'll be talking about 

[00:49:00] the Joy Quotient and the very practical ways in which God has given her a formula, which is a tool that we can use to truly step quickly out of shame and into joy, and I have to say. I've applied the tool, I still apply it and it works. I'm not even kidding. So make sure you tune in to the next episode. 
And while you wait, I invite you to share this episode with a friend who might need some encouragement. And maybe take the next couple of weeks. And if you haven't already done so, go back and binge listen, we've had some incredible episodes.

Thank you as always for being gracious on my own journey with the Lord and pivoting as Holy Spirit pivots. And just a reminder, we do have the Free Facebook community called the Redeemed Perfectionist. So, if you feel the nudge, head on over to Facebook. I'll drop the link in the show notes and join us over there.
Until next time, sister, remember, you are loved, you are chosen, and you don't have to be perfect to be redeemed.