Good Church Girl to Prodigal: How Christian Perfectionism Twisted the Gospel (Part 2/2) | 020

Read Amy's full story in her new book, Ring of Fire.  Get your copy here!

Learn more about Amy at www.amydial.com.  

Part one ended with a gut-punch: Amy—crushed under secret sin, shame, and the religious lie “You’re too far gone”—sat in a car headed to an abortion clinic, convinced God was finished with her.

But part two is where everything turns.

In this episode of The Redeemed Perfectionist, you’ll hear what happens when the enemy tries to finish the story with fear, condemnation, and even suicide—and what happens when Jesus interrupts with a single sentence that changes everything: “Remember who you are.”

Amy shares what it felt like inside that clinic, the dehumanizing pressure, the spiritual warfare she didn’t yet have language for, and the moment God’s presence broke through when she couldn’t even pray. You’ll also hear how the Lord began rebuilding her life—step by step—from religion to relationship, from “worthless” to priceless, and from hiding in shame to living with reverence, identity, and real intimacy with God.

If you’ve ever believed:

• “I should know better by now.”
• “One more mistake and God will punish me.”
• “I’ve gone too far.”
• “I don’t deserve to be here.”

…this episode is for you.

Take a breath. Unclench your jaw. Don’t run. Redemption isn’t coming someday—it's coming now.

Listen in for: grace vs. condemnation, Christian perfectionism, religious fear, shame, abortion pressure, spiritual warfare, suicide lies, identity in Christ, and what it looks like to obey God from love—not fear.

Next step: Hit Follow/Subscribe, share this with the woman on your heart, and leave a quick review so more women can find freedom. And if this stirred something deep in you, check the show notes to leave Leneé a message or join the

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Transcript

Good Church Girl to Prodigal: How Christian Perfectionism Twisted the Gospel (Part 2) | 020

Welcome back to the Redeemed Perfectionist podcast. If you listened to last week's episode, you know we didn't end with a neat little bow. We ended with a gut punch. Amy was being pressured into the unthinkable, sitting in a car on the way to an abortion clinic after months of secret sin crushing shame, and that familiar religious lie that whispers, “You're too far gone now. God's done with you. 

Good church girl to prodigal…and then--God. 

A clinic that seemed to vanish, a sign in the parking lot that read, “God loves you and your baby,” and Amy walking through those doors weeping, dry heaving, barely able to speak. 

Good church, girl to prodigal…

So, here's the question part two answers: What happens when you are at your lowest and grace shows up anyway?

[00:01:00] Today you're going to hear the moment the enemy tried to finish Amy with fear, condemnation, and even suicide. And the moment Jesus stepped in with one sentence that changed everything.

Hey, Friend. I'm Leneé Pezzano, host of the Redeemed Perfectionist podcast, and I lived the majority of my Christian life fearing God's punishment. This belief system drove me to consider performance as God's standard for righteousness. Grace was not a favorable word in my world until the Lion of God showed up as the Lamb and rocked my world.

And listener, this is why you need to stay with us because part two is not just the rest of the story, it's the turning point. It's where religion loses its grip, grace restores identity, and where God proves—again--that conviction 

[00:02:00] is never the same thing as condemnation. So, take a breath, unclench your jaw, and if part one hit close to home, don't run. Redemption is not coming someday; it's coming now.  

Let's jump back in right where we left off. 

Audio Only - All Participants: and the receptionist called me over and called the father of my child over. She was not happy to see, to see me in that shape. Oh man. And she asked, she asked directly. She, well first she was very clear to state the law in Texas that you can't be an, you can't have an abortion against your will. I mean, it was obvious that I was not okay being there.

Right. And she asked me, do you want, like, are you here of your own faculties, of your own accord? And I just looked at her and I'm weeping and I'm trying not to get sick. I can't even speak. Yeah. And she just looked at him and said, get her outta here now. She's scaring the other women. Oh my gosh. And I just was, I remember 

[00:03:00] thinking like, thank God, but at the same time I was like pissed off that she would say like, you're scaring the other women.

Like we all should be scared we're about to lose our child. Right. Right. But that's not what it's about with them. With them it's about money. She did not care about my wellbeing. I, in the state I was in, I should have gone directly to the hospital. Yeah. Like, I needed medical evaluation at that point because I was having a full-on emotional breakdown.

Right. I needed psychiatric help at that moment. Yeah, yeah. But that was not on her radar. She didn't care. She was just like, get her outta here before she runs off business. Yeah. And so that was the first time we left and we came back home. Oh, okay. I mean, let's just gets, keep going.

Oh, it gets heavier. I'm just pausing for a moment. I know. This is so good. I mean, it's so hard, but it's so good because already the heart of God, I, if I could speak to you, listener, if I could help you connect a dot here. Listen to how 

[00:04:00] God began to show up mm-hmm for Amy. And, and He never left. He never left. While we were dead in our transgressions mm-hmm, He died for us. Died for us. The heart of God. I mean, if, if it was true that we had to clean ourselves up and be perfect and, and get all cleaned up before we go and are accepted, then this story would be a lie.

That's right. And it's not a lie. And it would and and I would not be here to tell it right now. You wouldn't be, I wouldn't be, I would not be here to tell it because the enemy didn't just stop at trying to take my son's life. He, he continued to try to take my life. It gets so much worse. Ah, okay. I feel like I need to like, I feel like I need to go get the popcorn and like come back.

I know, I know. Like we might need to take some blood pressure medication. Right? I dunno. Not, not that I'm trying to make light of it but I am kind of trying to bring a little bit of light to it. Yeah. It's, it gets heavy. But it has such it, I'm here, here's the thing. It gets heavy. It gets real heavy and in a minute.

[00:05:00] Yeah. But by the grace of God, I'm here telling my story now. That is the beauty of this whole story, Leneé. I'm not supposed to be here. If the enemy has his way, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Yeah. Yep. That's right. And. And you're not just here, but you're, redeemed. Mm-hmm. You are capable of a life of joy and That's right freedom and intimacy. And I'm worth it. And you're worth mistakes and all because they've been, they've been covered by the way, they've been covered by the Blood. And you have faith in that Blood and that's your weapon. That's right. So don't go anywhere. Listeners, hang with us. Okay. Keep going Amy. Keep going.

Okay. So then, um, we went, you know, went back home and it was about two, maybe three, two to three weeks of just in this state of, I don't know what I'm gonna do. And now it's getting more, it's getting more pressing, it's getting more intense. And I'm really having this connection with King David, 

[00:06:00] where when he got Bathsheba pregnant, he went to such great lengths, such great lengths to cover his sin.

Amen. He tried to get Uriah to come home. He tried to get him drunk, he tried to get him to go, go home and sleep with his wife. He tried all these things and Uriah was a, he was a noble man and he was like, I can't do this if my, basically, if my soldiers are out fighting and they're not sleeping at home and they're comfortable beds and they're not enjoying the, you know, the things, who am I to do that?

Yeah. I honor the King. And so, I mean, we know the story. Ultimately what happened is King David set him up, had him murdered, and the interesting part is he had him carry his own letter back to command base. It says, by the way, when Uriah gets there, put him up front, remove all the help and let him get killed. He carried his own death notice. So, I was in this place where I was like, I don't know what to do. But we've gotta do something. Like the enemy's 

[00:07:00] constantly, constantly, constantly. there's no other option. This is what's gonna happen. What are you gonna do? What are you gonna do? And I'm in this panic state, completely panic state. And then he starts working on not only the abortion, he starts working on you don't deserve to live. Yeah. And this is where he really got me. Oh man. And I, I feel like the reason he went there with me is because he knew that he was never gonna convince me that abort my child was a good idea.

Even being faced with the reality of, what are you gonna do, aborting, my child was never on the table for me. It was never once that I considered it, it was never once a viable option. It was never like, Hmm, maybe I should do this. I was being told this is what was gonna happen.

But I never could reconcile in my heart that I, I agreed with it on any front because I completely disagreed with it. So, I believe that the enemy knew I'm not gonna get her on that one, but what I can get her on, uh, he's got that playbook. What I can get her 

[00:08:00] on is her identity. Yeah. Her sense of self of, of worthlessness her, her sense of questioning her value.

Yeah. 'cause I've already implanted that seed in her when she was a little girl. That she's worthless. Yep. That she's, yep. That, that she's shameful that she's all these things. I looked at God from a very religious lens. Right. I grew up, you know, with that pharisaical legalistic viewpoint and that mindset about God, it only ends up in one place and that's unworthiness.

I, I'm not worthy, None of us are. Right. But I'm priceless. Right. Right. And you're priceless because Jesus was willing to shed his blood for us. Right. And so that Blood that was shed for us, makes us priceless, pausing there for just a moment. 

I've been also saying this lately, we didn't become valuable once we obeyed the Lord. No. Again, He died for us while we were yet in our transgressions. So, He, by His 

[00:09:00] own behavior, already determined that we were that valuable. And that's to die for us. That's right. So, the value had nothing to do with our behavior. Mm-hmm. No. It had to do with who we were when He formed us.

Yeah. Each one of us were made in God's image. Yeah. And God's image is priceless. So, when we were made in His image, we too were priceless. Yeah. you're right. It had nothing to do with, okay. Now that Amy and Leneé have accepted Christ, now they're worth something. Right? No, from the moment we took our first breath, right, we are priceless. We're predestined to be children of God now. Mm-hmm. We don't enter in mm-hmm. Except by faith. That's right. I mean, there is a response. That's right. Like he's looking for a response. He does look for obedience. What he doesn't want is for us to be obeying out of fear of punishment.

Right. And that was my life. Right? Mm-hmm. And so, uh, I mean, heck, I obeyed and the principle of obedience does work. I mean, obedience 

[00:10:00] got me blessings, obedience got me in right standing, if you will, but there was no joy, there was no intimacy. Mm-hmm. Because I was obeyed from a place of fear, punishment.

And you felt like He was a task master? Probably. Yeah. Absolutely. That's not, that's not who He is. That's not, that's not, that's not who He is. Ugh. I love this. Okay. 

All right, so now you're starting to go down the spirit of suicide. Okay, so now I'm going down that. So, the enemy is really coming at me hard, and he's like, you don't deserve to live.

You are actually destroying the people around you. You say you love your family, you say you love people. You say you're this, but you're actually hurting them by your existence. I was hearing this lie that my actual existence was causing my family more pain, which is ridiculous. My family did not know anything that was going on.

No one knew. No one knew. Wow. Wow. And the enemy's telling me, your family's better off without you. Your baby's gonna get aborted and he's gonna go to heaven. So, your baby's good and you're gonna go to hell where you deserve. 

[00:11:00] I kept hearing that lie over and over and over, you're gonna go to hell where you deserve. Wow. Make it make it easy on the people around you. And I say that because to the listener who has heard these lies, it is absolutely a lie from the pit of hell. No one, no one will be better off without you here.  You are here for a purpose and hell is not meant for you. Hell is not meant for me. Hell is meant for the devil.

That's what hell is meant for. It's not Jesus's will that any should perish. No, that's right. None of us are, are destined for hell, but we all have an opportunity to choose heaven or hell. Right. There's never gonna be anyone spending eternity in hell that was forced to be there. No, you're gonna know exactly why you were there.

Yeah. There's not gonna be questions. And, and we, we choose, we choose where we spend it, so we choose. So, choose wisely. Choose this day who you'll serve, you know? Yeah. Yeah. But he, he did, he had me convinced. And so, by the time I went back over there, I was just a shell. 

[00:12:00] I was completely checked out and I mean, I was crying, but I was not this wild crying woman like I was before I just was, was completely gone. And anyone who would've been paying attention would've recognized the signs, but that's not what they're there for. Right. they're there to take care of a quote “problem” and to take the money.

Yeah. That's what that industry's about. Yeah. Yep. I just need to speak to the lie. Anytime I talk about it, I have to speak to the lie that it's women's healthcare. It is anything but healthcare. There's nothing caring about it. No one cared about me.

No one cared about my baby. And so, I'm in there, you know, we're going through all the motions and all of the things, and you know, you've got the processes you've got to go through. It was such a joke when they were trying to give me the informed consent because it was evident that I was not in a state of receiving, but again, hey, the cash had already been handed over, so you know, we're doing this thing.

And so, I go back and I'm in the procedure room, 

[00:13:00] the nurse and the techs and everybody there. They’re really aggressive towards me telling me do this, do that, get undressed, get on the table, all these things. And I noticed, I'm laying there and I noticed they're all speaking to the father of my child.

Nobody's looking at me speaking to me. And I was, I was questioning my sanity. I'm like, is this really happening? I'm the one going through this procedure. I'm the one, like, they're going to, they're talking to him like nobody would make eye contact with me. And now I've come to understand that there's a level of dehumanization that most likely has to happen for them to be able to do that. A hundred percent. You've just, you've just got to, you've gotta, uh, remove yourself from the situation. And if you are looking at the woman laying on the table and she's crying and she's emotionally, like, you could tell I needed help.

I was, I was grieving, I was full on grieving. It was evident, but no one, no one was gonna 

[00:14:00] stand up and say, “hey, let's put a pin in this. Let's have a conversation.” Like, no. Right, right. And so, I just remember laying there and the doctor came in and he's explaining the procedure and he's just rambling through it.  Very technical and very…it was just technical. There was no emotion behind it. He was just reciting. He wasn't even looking up. He's just writing and da, da da da da da. You know? And I'm laying there and I'm thinking this is not real. And I just kept feeling the enemy scooping out.

Again, I didn't understand spiritual warfare, but I could tell something was different in the room. It was just this ominous presence. It felt cold, it felt dark, it felt like it was looking back now, I'm like, oh my God. There was so much spiritual warfare happening in that room, in those moments I would feel the things shift and it was just like this malevolent, evil presence.

And I would feel this thing that felt like a, a scoop on a backhoe. It felt like it was just scooping out my chest, just all my emotion. And I remember whenever it would take a piece of me, 

[00:15:00] it would take another piece. I was just like, I don't know. Like, what's the point? What's the point? You're right. I'm going to hell today.

I deserve it. I started thinking I deserve it. I remember just counting down. I was like, I'll be in hell pretty soon. I made my bed. I'm gonna lie in it. It looks like it's gonna be in hell. My thoughts went to my son and I was like, I hope he has a good life in Heaven.  And then I had this, this thought, come over me. I wish somebody would see me. Mm. And here's the interesting thing. You know, when people say they're in spiritual battle and spiritual warfare and they're being attacked. I was being attacked by a demon. I didn't understand it, but people say they call on the name of Jesus and he shows up.

Mm-hmm. This is how good Jesus is. I didn't call on the name of Jesus. I just thought, in my mind and in my heart, I wish somebody would notice me. Yeah. Which was really the call. That wasn't the call it, it was really the call, but I didn't call His name audibly. Right. Or I didn't, in my mind, I didn't say, “Jesus help.”

I was just like, I just wish somebody would see me. Right. Would notice me.

[00:16:00] Right. And I felt at this point that I was way too far gone to call on Jesus or God. Like they like I'm, yeah. I'm beyond their help is what I thought. Yeah. Yeah. And the instant that I felt that, that I thought that I felt this presence on my right side.

To this day when I tell this story, I can still feel, I can't even, I cannot even explain how powerful it felt, and I just heard it in my spirit. Remember who you are. Ugh. Whoa. Oh my word. And whenever I, whenever I felt that, like, remember, I just knew it in my gut. Remember who you are and Leneé, that's all it took.

I came up off that table like a wild woman. I was swinging. I was, I mean, be honest, I was not walking with the Lord at this time. I was cussing like a sailor. I was like, you know what, no, we are not doing this today. I mean, I was ready to take on hell and everybody, because I knew we were not having that abortion that day. 

[00:17:00] I was like, I don't know what my next step is, but I know what my next step is not. Oh, and that is abortion and suicide. I will not be going home and hanging myself today. I will not be having my son ripped out of my body today. That's not going to happen. And I'm telling you, I went wild. And they were real surprised and they were very, very angry.

And they're like, get her outta here now again, the same thing. She's gonna scare the other customers. It was customers, it was not, you know? Yeah. Not humans. Not humans. Not humans. Yeah. And 'cause I was making a very loud scene, and so I'm, you know, getting my stuff together and I'm coming outta there and on the way, like it was this total Lion of Judah moment where he's ushering me out and I've got all this power and I've got all this like, yeah, we're not doing this today.

This is the goodness of God. On the way out, before I got into the waiting room, I felt this something in my spirit. I didn't understand it. Then it was Holy Spirit talking to me, but I just felt it said, “look back.”

[00:18:00] And I stopped and I looked over my left shoulder and there was a procedure room, a post procedure room that was to my left.

And I saw the women in there and those recliners, they're like the medical recliners. I saw the ones who had gone through with their abortions. Now, I do not know what these women did to get into this clinic, and I sure don't know what they did when they left that clinic. But what I can tell you with 1000% certainty is in that moment when I looked at them, not one single woman had any life in her eyes.  Not one woman had any joy, any satisfaction, any sense of relief. There was death. There was death. And every pair of eyes I saw, it was a handful of women and they all were grieving. Everyone had been stolen from, oh, and my heart broke for those women. And I'm still in this religious state where I thought God showed me that to rub my nose in it, of who I almost was.

[00:19:00I didn't understand that that was who He was calling me to all these years later. Right. But in that moment, I was completely faced with my sin of being so judgmental because I was literally like Paul on the road to Damascus. the scales fell off my eyes and I thought, oh my God, I almost was her.

Mm. I've hated her for so long. Yeah. But I was within moments of being her. Yeah. And I was just broken for her. I was broken for her. Mm. And I would've done anything to take that pain away from her. I'm still in my broken state at this point. 

That's amazing. You, you know, he had you turn around and look at your destiny. That's what he did. And I didn't under, I didn't understand it was my destiny though. No, no, no. That's how religion, religion won't show you that that's your destiny.

Religion will show you that. That's where you were such a screw up. You were within minutes of this. 

[00:20:00] That's where religion is; relationship shows you it's your destiny. Yeah. Yes. And I'm so grateful for that. Yeah. Yeah. 

Where did you go from here and what in the world was the baby's father doing at this point? Like, what happened? 

Well, first of all, for him, I don't even know what he was doing because I left him in that procedure room and he was my ride. I was like, I don't even care. I don't even care if I have to walk home from Houston, Texas. it's a two hour by car. I don't care. I'm not with it. Yeah. When I left out of there, he was back there. Eventually he came out, I probably shouldn't say this, but I'm pretty sure knowing him, he was probably trying to get a refund, 

I didn't. I didn't care. yeah. So, I walked outta there and I would love to say that I came out guns blazing. Like, oh, I'm so redeemed, everything's great. God's got this amazing ministry for me. All these things, and no. That's not what happened.

[00:21:00] The enemy does not quit. Hmm. So, we go back home and the ride home was, I thought the ride home the first time was uncomfortable and difficult. This one was beyond that. There was such a, I can't even describe the atmosphere in that car. But again, I was like, I don't even care. 'cause I know one thing, I won't go back a third time and I dare you.I dare you to try. Wow. 

And, uh, I mean, he didn't have anything to say. I'm, I'm sure at this point he knew that, okay, now what am I gonna do? Because now I've gotta tell my boss, I've gotta tell my wife, like, you know, I'm sure these were things he was thinking. And um, and I knew I would have to tell my husband, but I was like, God, you don't have to help me. Like I wouldn't help me if I, these are the thoughts I'm having on the way home. I'm like, I wouldn't help me if I were you and you don't have to, but if you can just show me like I can't do this,

[00:22:00] God, like you, you tell me in your word that if we resist the devil, he'll flee from us.

And that you'll always give us a way out. Like, I hope that's true. ' cause I can't do this, so I'm just, I'm leaning on you. And I got home and I got back into my car. We were at a meetup spot. I got outta his car, got into my car, no words were spoken. And I was like, that was the end of our relationship.

I'm fine with me. I don't care. Like, see you because we're not doing this. It was so interesting because prior to that, I had made him such a, god in my life. Hmm. And I was just addicted to his presence until I got pregnant. Like when I got pregnant, everything changed, but that's when the, um, the really bad side came out.

But I was like, I don't care. Like I don't care if I never see you or talk to you again like this, whatever. So, I got in my car, I went home, I sat in my driveway for a very long time and I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna do, but I can't go back through that again. And I felt it in my spirit, have this baby and it's all gonna work out. 

[00:23:00] And I sat there and I was like, what? And I felt it again, you know, again, this is Holy Spirit talking to me and I didn't understand it. Sure. Right. And I felt just have this baby and it's all gonna work out. The interesting part is I didn't feel my spirit receive, “have this baby and it's all gonna be okay.”

Mm. “Have this baby and everything's gonna be Oh, great.” “Have this baby and it's all going to work out.” Mm. It has. My son is now 19 years old. He's now serving in the army, in the, in the airborne 82nd Airborne. And, you know, he's doing great things for the country. I'm so proud of him. But it has been a very long journey.  Not always easy by any means, but that's the way sin is. Sin has real consequences. Sure. Um, but the Lord never stopped loving me. Yeah. And Jesus redeemed it all. 

And so, I went in and I told my now ex-husband, “Hey, I have to, I just have to tell you.” And I told him everything that night. 

[00:24:00] I said, I've been gone to an abortion clinic.

It's not the first time I went over there, I said, that's why I've been gone so long. I'm pregnant by this. And it's somebody he knew. Um, mm. I said, I'm, I'm been having an affair with him for six months. I'm pregnant by him. And, um. I was gonna come home and hang myself in your shop when I was done. Like the, he, he's getting all of this dumped on him at one time and uh, his initial response was, “don't tell anybody, I'll raise the baby like it's mine.”

What? That was his initial response. And what did you say to that? I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. as much as I appreciated that, I also, for one, did, definitely did not feel worthy of it. Yeah. But for two, it would be, it would just be living a lesser lie. Like it would be, we're gonna make it look good on the surface.

But that's where we were. We had religion. Yeah. We'll just keep this quiet. We'll pretend it's my baby. I. 

[00:25:00] Again, that's what the Christian mask would say. That's why he said that he had the Christian mask. Sure. Bless his heart. I mean, he was trying to do best he could with what he had.

But it still wasn't the answer. The answer was no, I need to get my heart right. Yeah. I need to get my heart right. And so, we divorced. I actually took a job in Denver at this point. Uh, a little bit after this. I took a job in Denver because I wanted to run for my small town. I didn't wanna be anywhere near the church.

I wanted to run from God, and my ex-husband asked, he actually followed me out there he lived next door to me. We co-parented really well with our kids. Um, he is such a great guy and, um, sounds like it. Yeah. He is a really great guy. And so, um, that was the life we lived and, and quite a few at this point.

Are you still pretty estranged from your dad? Yeah. I mean, I was like, I, I wasn’t 

[00:26:00] completely estranged from him, but I was very distant. Yeah. They were broken hearted when I moved and took the grand babies, And they knew that they, did they know any of this? No, they didn't know.

Okay. Uh, I told them after I moved Yeah. they knew that we were having trouble. Mm-hmm. But we didn't officially get divorced until after my, it was actually after my son's birth when we got divorced. Okay. Officially. Okay. But after I moved, um, and they, they knew things weren't right and. I don't, I don't know how much they knew, but after I got established up there, after a while I came back and was like, look, this is what's going on.

We're separated. he lives next door to me. Uh, he lives in the apartment next door. We're not even together as a couple. And like, it's no surprise that things have not been good between us. And I've had an affair and I'm pregnant and it's not his. And my dad just knew, like he knew.

But my mom, she tried everything to not receive it. She just didn't believe that that he wasn't my ex-husband's child. 

[00:27:00] And so I just really had to keep my parents at a, lovingly long distance. Uh, you know, 'cause I was in another state. I was working, I was too busy.

But the sad part is, is that I had had three children, prior to to Austin, that's my son. And my mom was there for every one of my births. And it was amazing. Austin was the one birth that I didn't ask my mom to to come be a part of. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And she would've, if I would've asked her, my mama would've made that drive to Denver, Colorado.

She would've been there. My daddy would've got her there. But I felt unworthy. Yeah. I felt ashamed. And so, I went through that experience without her. Now the father of the child also showed up, which made it even worse. Yeah. And so, by that time, he had kind of come to terms with the fact that him and his wife had separated and they were going through their divorce process, but he had come to terms with a fact of like, okay, I'm gonna have a child.

[00:28:00] And he and I were not a couple, but he was trying at this point to maybe be a dad. It was kind of one of those hit or miss things all throughout. My son's life, but, um, they have more of like a uncle nephew relationship, but mm-hmm. at any rate, he was glad the day that our son was born, he looked at me and said, thank you for standing up for him.

Wow. And that was a huge thing for him. Yeah. and the state that he was in at that point. Yeah. Because he was very, very broken, um, in dealing with a lot of stuff himself. But he did acknowledge like that was a mistake that we almost did, and thank you. Um, but my mom wasn't there, it was so hard.

It was so hard to go through that without her. Yeah. And she would've been if I would've asked, but I, I didn't, you know, I wasn't asking the Lord either. Right. The Lord was there, but I wasn't acknowledging Hm. Right. he was born and then I proceeded to try to live as a single mom for, it was probably 10 years before I met my husband.

[00:29:00] Wow. And so at what point did things began to shift between you and the Lord? Where, you really started to realize that He had loved you now and you were transitioning from religion to relationship. Did that happen, like in that 10-year process? No, not in the 10-year process, because in those 10 years, I really, when I, when I got away from the Lord, when I got out from my parents' watchful eyes and the small town that I lived in, I'm in a new place.I'm in a big city. Nobody knows me. They don't know my story. 

I didn't want anything to do with God because I felt that I had gone too far away. Gotcha. I had this ache in my heart that I knew what was missing. Like there was something deeply missing, and I knew it was God, but I didn't think that I deserved it.

And so, I just like, we're just gonna shove that to the side and we're just gonna keep doing our thing. I rose up quite quickly in my career. I was, um, really good at what I did. Yeah. I worked in, uh, 

[00:30:00] neonatal medicine and I, I poured myself professionally into being, you know, this, performer, what you could say. And it made me feel somewhat better about what I had gone through. But my private life, I was not at all living for the Lord. I didn't even care to, I went on a wild street for almost 10 years, and then by the grace of God, I was back home visiting my family. And the Lord had me and my husband meet my husband now.

And we met and it just clicked. Like I just knew like, oh, this is what, but there had, this is what it was supposed to be. This is what it was supposed to be like. And He used that relationship to redeem me and show me a lot of things. And so, we dated a very short period of time. We dated for three months and we got married and he had two kids that he was raising by himself.

He has his own story, what was going on in the 10 years prior to us meeting. He's a postwar veteran and dealing with a lot of things from that and raising two kids by himself.

[00:31:00] And so he shows up to the table broken. I show up to the table, broken with my four kids, two broken marriages, and somehow, by the grace of God, it didn't take us very long in our relationship to realize like, okay, what we've been doing in the past didn't work for us. Right? And what we're doing right now doesn't look like it's gonna work for us. With our family now we're trying to blend a family of six kids with two parents that have some really serious heart issues.

We don't have any other option but God. Like we got to a point where it, it didn't take us very long. It was, you know, maybe six months into our marriage. 'cause we both were repeating the same cycles of the arguing of the, you know, different. Just, it was, we, we could quickly see. Yeah, now you knew. Now we knew like, oh, we're recognizing the symbols.

Yeah, I'm repeating the same cycles. He's repeating the same cycles. We have to do something. And we decided like, oh, God's our only option. 

[00:32:00] Well then we started the journey of, I only knew religion and my husband, this is how intentional God is. My husband was raised in a very charismatic upbringing with church, so he was, he was full of the Spirit, but not so much rooted in, in the Word, yeah, I was full of the Word, but didn't have very much of the Spirit. Oh my goodness. And he had his own serious church hurts. And so, he was just like, I love God. I'm jiving with God, but I'm not ever going back into a church again. And I was from the camp of, no, if we're doing this God's way, we have to be in a church.

So, we came to an agreement, we're like, okay, look, here's the deal. We'll go to church. But he told me the list of churches that were off, like he said, I will not go to this denomination, this denomination. Like he listed them. And the number one denomination was the one that I was raised in, 

[00:33:00] which I was dumbfounded when he told me, because that's the only framework I had.

Right. But it was very much religion. Right. And he said no. He was like, I'm not raising in our kids in that. And he said it hasn't served you. And I said, well, I'm not raising our kids as these crazy wild charismatics that don't, that don't have any firm foundation. It didn't work for you either.

Right? Right. And so, we started the process of just, we would try different churches and we were like, well, we should probably ask God about it because He probably knows best. And so, through a series of just trial and error and walking with the Lord and us growing and learning together, we got to a place where we found what worked for us.

We're non-denominational, we firmly stand on the word of God. We believe the Word of God, but we also don't hinder the flow of the Holy Spirit, if that makes sense. Yeah. we don't believe that one doctrine over another has it all together. We just don't.

And we believe in friendship with the Holy Spirit 

[00:34:00] and we live our lives as such. And he has been such a warrior because he has taught me, I always thought that when you prayed Leneé, that you have got these long drawn out prayers and they have to be very wordy. And they have to be very, oh, all the things.

And when he would pray for stuff, he would be like, dear Lord, do do, thank you. Amen. And I'm like, Hmm, that's heresy. Do you know that his prayers would get answered? And I'm like, wait a minute. Wait a minute. What's happening? There is something to this. Yeah. And so, it's really helped me grow and develop. But yeah, we are about to hit our 11th year of marriage and we've got amazing six amazing kids, four of which are adults.

Uh, actually. she's a half an adult. She just graduated. She's still at home, but she's getting ready to launch. she's going in the military next year and we have, um, one grand baby and one on the way. It's so sweet. It's so sweet. 

[00:35:00] Take us a little bit more into when you began to be shed of religion and, you're starting to see Papa God for who He is and how He loves you.Where would you say in the marriage that came? 

It was, that was probably, we had moved back home, um, because when we got married, he moved to Denver where I was at, and we lived up there probably, I was there for 12 years. Sam was there maybe for, two years.

Anyway, we ended up moving back to Texas where we're from and we came back here. I was working in one of the local hospitals and, you know, continuing to do my career thing, but I had a job on the side, that was my fun job. And it was working at a women's bootcamp gym, uh, boutique gym, uh, doing bootcamp, coaching, fitness for women.

And I love, love, love, like, I love that. And so that was my fun job on the days off. Well, we all know what happened in 2020 to gyms, and I was quickly found without a job when, everything started shutting down. 

[00:36:00] And I remember being just devastated. And I'm talking to Sam, that's my husband. I'm talking to my husband about this.

I'm like, why? Don't know what I'm gonna do, because that's my fun job. Like going to the hospital, taking care of these sick babies is really stressful. Like I need a job. Just to do something fun. And I love coaching women's fitness. And he just said to me, he was like, you wanna pray about it? And I was like, yeah, we mean we're gonna have to pray about it 'cause just something's not happening.

And he just prayed a simple prayer and he said, dear Lord, I know you're gonna give her something better. In Jesus' name. Amen. And I remember I opened my eyes and I was like, that's it. Like you're my leader. And that's the best you've got. You're a marine. That's the best you've got.

God answered it.  He answered it beautifully. That's amazing. It wasn't very long, I found a ministry, from Arizona called Revelation Wellness, and it intrigued me, so I started praying about it. I started looking into it and I decided, okay, I got the clearance from the Lord. Like, yeah, this is what you need to do. 

[00:37:00] So, I went through the training to become a, it's called a RevX instructor, and it's being able to use health and fitness to share the gospel.

So, I teach these fitness bootcamps. But the beautiful thing is, while I'm doing it, I'm preaching the word of God. I'm a speaker. I love to preach. I love to be able to minister. I love to talk to people and I love fitness. So, to be able to like coach women and encourage them to move your body while I'm telling you the message he's given us for this particular class, I love it.

So, it was right up my alley and I was thinking like, I didn't even know this was a thing. I remember thinking this. I did not know you could preach the gospel outside of a pulpit. Right? Oh my gosh. Isn't that ridiculous? My, like we preach the gospel every day, everywhere.

Just share an interaction where we go. Yeah. But in my mind religion says number one, women can't preach. Number two, you can't preach if you're not in the church. And I was like, so my theology really got shook in the best possible way, and the Lord was using it to dismantle everything. So, I go through this training and it's four or five months of training.

[00:38:00] And whenever we're done, we have a long graduation. It was like a four-day graduation, um, process. So, in that graduation process, there were different things, different exercises. We had to do a lot of prophetic things. There was this one particular exercise, and this is where everything broke for me in this exercise we had to get still before the Lord.

Mm-hmm. And that's not easy. That's not easy. And during my months of training, every time they would talk about, you know, get still before the Lord be still and know that he is God and all these things, I'd be like, yeah, yeah, I know that. I got it. Let's get back to moving our bodies, or let's get back to, you know, and in this, in this, uh, graduation ceremony, I didn't have any choice.

The exercise was, you're gonna get still before the Lord. And so, we had these balloons that they had given us, and the object was, you're gonna write on one side of the balloon. Every lie you believe about yourself, 

[00:39:00] and then you're gonna turn around and you're gonna write every truth, like whatever God says or whatever scripture comes to mind.

So, I'm writing all these lies about me, and in the center of the balloon I had written worthless. Like block letters in a sharpie and I would turn it around. I couldn't come up with the truth. I'd turn it back over and I would write, you know, bad mother, um, shouldn't be alive. Like all these lies that were coming from me.

Uh, failure as a wife, you know, I can't be a good Christian. These are things I'm writing on this balloon. And then I would turn it back around and try to come up with a truth and I couldn't. And so, I just finally got frustrated and I just turned it over and I started circling worthless as much as I could.

Hmm. And finally, 'cause I did not wanna be still before the Lord. I didn't want him to look at me. 'cause I, I knew the state of my heart and how broken I still was inside. I know I was much better than I was, but there was still a lot of work that needed to be done. And I couldn't forgive myself. That was the whole thing. 

[00:40:00] I could not forgive what I had almost done. All the hurt I had caused people, I just couldn't forgive myself. And I'm like, I know God loves me. I know Jesus loves me, but I don't know why and I don't know how, because if I was God, I would never love me. I, I thought that all the time. If I was God, I would, well, thank God I'm not God.

And so that part of the exercise was over and she said, okay, now take out this. There was like a little straight pen they gave us. She goes, take out the pen and pop your balloon. Well, what I didn't realize is there was a piece of paper in my balloon, so I popped the balloon.

I'm literally looking at this piece of paper right now. It's one of my most valuable possessions. Can you guess what the paper said?  Worthy? It says priceless. Ah. I said I was worthless. He says, I'm priceless. Mm. And in that moment, everything broke for me. I wept and wept and wept and wept. My husband came home from work and he was like, what are you doing?

[00:41:00] Because we were doing all this virtually, and I couldn't even talk to him. And so, it, it took a while before I could even speak because I couldn't, I couldn't wrap my mind around how God could call me priceless after everything I had done. Yeah. But that's the beauty of the Cross line. Just like we said, He went to the cross for us.

Yeah. When we were still in our most disgusting state. Yeah. He wept in the garden so hard. Yeah. That blood came out of his pores. Yeah. The most extreme stress because He knew what He was gonna face and He said, Father, if this can be taken from me, take it. But He said, not my will, but thine be done. Because He was thinking about me. Yeah. And how messed up Amy was before Amy was even created. And He was thinking about you and He was thinking about every one of our listeners, and He calls us priceless. 

Yeah. Yeah. And you know, it's, it's so interesting because I, um, just got back from Utah a few weeks ago with a group of Christian women.

[00:42:00] 23 of us went to a cabin in, in Utah, strangers, left their sisters. And, uh, and one of the things that we practiced while we were there is asking God questions. And so, they gave us prayer prompt questions to ask. And one day, the first one was - ask God, God, do you love me? And I had this prideful, haughty response in my heart.

Like, duh. Like why would I ask that? Like I, yeah. But see our brain in our human nature, it, it is. Carnal mine is enmity toward the Lord scripture says. Mm-hmm. And so, it's always going to tell us things and make us think things that are against the Lord. But then I had choice, so I exercised my will, took captive that thought.

And I was like, just ask the Lord the question, right? Yeah. Just ask him. Well, I said, God, do you love me? And you know what He said? 

[00:43:00] He said, did he say? Limitlessly. Yes. And I was like, oh, this is so much more than a yes or no. Yeah. And then I said, Ooh, tell me more. And He showed me a vision of a stream that was sort of just trickling.

Yeah. And it was kind of small. Yeah. And He said, this is how you see my love for you. And then He switched it to this stream that was rushing waters. I mean, just rushing. Oh my God. And, and He said, but this is how I love you.  It was, so that's a word that'll preach, girl. It was so crazy. And then so the whole, that you know how God sometimes will be like, uh, giving you themes.

Yeah. And so, we were in. It, the group that I was with is called No More Dry Ground, and we were in the wilderness in Utah. Like we were out in the middle of nowhere and we went to the Narrows. Yes. Which is, uh, yeah. In, um, I wanna go there. 

[00:44:00] Oh. It was beautiful. And so, we, you know, we're walking and I'm, at some point I'm by myself and I we're walking upstream at that point.Mm-hmm. And I'm looking down and I'm watching every move I make to not fall. And uh, and I thought, you know, I'm gonna just practice talking to the Lord. And I just said, Lord, I said, talk to me. What do you wanna say? Let's have a conversation. What if we lived our life like that? Right. And I'm starting to.

Right. That is, that is one of the things I love to help people do is to be able just to have those conversations. Right. I know. Exactly. And easier when you do, you exercise it enough, you start to discern his voice. Yes. You start to get on a different vibration, a different wavelength. Mm-hmm. So, I'm walking and then all of a sudden, in my spirit,I was in tune with the sound of the water rushing, you know, over the rocks. 

And you think about that living water, right? Right.  And so, then I'm like, you know, so I lean in and I'm listening and I'm like, okay, intentional. Like, Lord, what do you wanna say? 

[00:45:00] And I started to notice that there was no place that the water didn't reach.  It went, wow. It rushed over every crevice, every crack. There just wasn't any place. Now relate that to how He loves you. Well, so then He says to me, there's no place in you Come on that I can't reach. Come on. There's no place in you That's right. I can't get to. That's right. And the scriptures talk about His arm is not so short that it cannot save, That's right. nor His ear so dull that it cannot hear. And and Philippians 1:6 is one of my favorites. It says, you know, that He who began a good work in you will complete it. We'll see it. He will see it pass. He will see it come to pass. And there's more. But I just was like, oh, I was on a cloud like just me and the Lord walking through the, the stream and the narrows.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And that's, that's the life, 

[00:46:00] that is the life that Jesus died to give us. That's right. That exceedingly abundantly more. Mm-hmm. And I love how you said, you know, I, I would be like, yeah, God loves me. But then He, you asked him right? You, you, you were like, well, lemme just try this. Yeah. And what He said to you blew your mind.

And you're like, wait a minute, I'm on a different wavelength. Yes. His ways are not our ways. That's right. But he invites us. He invites us. To come sit at the King's table. Yeah. And, and to feast with him and say, yeah, Abba, what do you say about me? What do you say about me? Yeah. Yeah. and I, I spent my life, you know, my conversations with the Lord at night before I'd go to bed, and in the morning when I'd wake up, I'd be like, okay, what do you want me to know?

Mm-hmm. But it was always from a posture of religion, it was always from a, yeah. A checklist. Okay, what am I doing today? Right? And what is it? Yep. Yep. Thanks. Me too. Hey, what do you need me to do? What do you want me to do differently? Task, task, task master, right? Mm-hmm. And so, then when he did start to 

[00:47:00] answer me with things like, you're beautiful. Mm. And I'd be like, oh, that couldn't have been the Lord, but see I have a god wink journal and I journal everything, right? Mm-hmm. Every now I even so much like if I hear something I think is God, I'm journaling it. There you go. And I go back and I reread everything and it's like I see the story unfolding of how he was starting to chip away at the lie and he was starting to reveal Himself.

Yes. And now I was starting to learn the grace of God and the lamb side of God. And he never, never compromised on his standard of obedience. No. But now my obedience comes from I am in love with him. That's right. And I have joy and I want to be obedient. Yeah. And when I mess up now. I actually run to him.

Yeah. I still feel shame, but like it's cleaned up so quickly. Yeah. And, and you go to a place of, uh, Dad, this is broken. Can you fix it? 

[00:48:00] Instead of, I broke this, I better hide from my dad. Right. That's where I always was. I broke this. I better hide from my dad. And now it's like, oh, I messed up. I better run to my dad.

Right. And I think of like when the Bible, I used to hate that scripture. I, I probably shouldn't say I hate scripture, but at that point in my life, I hated that scripture that says the fear of the Lord is the beginning of understanding. Mm-hmm. Because I'm like, why does God have to be fearful? Why do I have to be afraid of him to be able to understand? I did not get it Leneé.

Right. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of understanding. That means not fear of I'm afraid of Him, but reverence. Yeah. So, I look at it the way I, I look at my husband. I would never do anything to misrepresent my husband. Right. I'm, I'm his wife. Right. I carry his name. It is an honor to be his wife.

Yeah. And so I have reverence for the position of my husband and the reputation of his name. Yeah. How much more do I have reverence for God? 

[00:49:00] Yeah. I'm his ambassador here on Earth and if I'm proclaiming to be a Christian, to be a daughter of the King, to be walking and moving as a representative of heaven here on Earth, which is what I'm called to be, what you're called to be, all of us are called to be.  How am I carrying that out in my day to day? Yeah. Right. How are we showing up? I can say showing up, up, but, but Right. How are we showing up? Do our actions back it up? Or are we that Christian with a, a love Jesus bumper sticker on our car that's cutting people off in traffic and flipping 'em off?

Because we can't handle ourself, we're not willing to submit, so. Right. Right. That reverence and that love because He first loved me. Right. Well, and the other thing too is now I'm learning to love me, right? Yes. And scripture talks about loving others as you love yourself. Mm-hmm.

Well, no one ever talks about the as yourself part, right? Mm-hmm. And so again, it's reduced to a rule that you know to love others. Now what I know is that as I learned to love me, then the 

[00:50:00] loving others comes, comes naturally. Naturally. Yeah. And it's from the overflow. Overflow, right? That's right. And so, you know, this is all about identity.

And the thing is, we'll never walk in destiny until we learn to love ourselves and, and come into our identity in the Lord. I am reading a book right now called, And David Perceived He Was King. And it just talks about how when David faced Goliath, he had to know who he was, Yeah. or he never would have had the confidence Right. That's right. to face Goliath.

That's right. And I know what it's like to show up and not believe you deserve to be where the Lord's put you at. Imposter syndrome. Yeah. Imposter syndrome. And it, it completely impacts the way you show up. For sure. It does. It does. who are we to not love God's daughters?

Right. Who, who am I to not love God's Right. Creation. Right. And so now it's a matter of renewing our mind and being transformed. Mm-hmm. And I'm at this point now where I want to 

[00:51:00] repent and He's helping me repent of my lies and my unbelief, so. Mm-hmm. It's a process. But the thing is, is that at least we are willing to take the journey.

And He knows, you know, like when our kids are, are little and they're learning to walk, we don't expect them to go from crawling to running overnight. Right. But there's a joy in watching them fumble through it, watching them reach out and grab your hand, watching them fall down, get back up. It's okay. We are encouraged.

I'm right here for you. There's a joy as a parent and now a grandparent in watching that. How much more joy does our Father take in watching us? Yeah. When we say help us, I mean, the scriptures say that He delights in the small beginnings. Mm-hmm. He, He's happy to see the work begin. Yes. Yes. Yes. 

So, so Amy, if you could tell the listener right now, just one thing that would be helpful for them that they could consider or do or the next step, what do you feel like you would wanna share? 

Never put God in a box is one thing. 

[00:52:00] Uh, whenever He started breaking this off of me and calling me into this fitness ministry, he used it.  He, He'll use anything. He used a donkey in the Bible. So, I say that if he used a donkey, surely He can use me. But never put him in a box and never, um, because your boxes are not gonna fit. They're, they're not big enough to hold God. Just when I thought I had him figured out this whole redemption thing and what it's gonna look like, He would give me another layer of something that I didn't see coming.

And so, I decided, okay, whatever it is, you have my Yes. And I even said to him, I said, don't put anything in front of me that you don't want me to walk through, because if you put it in front of me, I don't care. And you and I were talking about this before the podcast of something He's put in front of me and I'm like, yeah, I know I'm gonna do it, but I, I keep pushing it to the back burner and I appreciate you calling that outta me.

And being like, no, I think now's the time. So I, I would say, don't put Him in a box. Don't try to put yourself in God's position. You're not God, I'm not God. 

[00:53:00] That's what got Satan kicked out of heaven was trying to be God. That's pride. And so, when He started using this fitness ministry to break things off of me, it was a process. And then He starts taking me to deliverance training. And again, I'm putting Him in a box. I'm like, God, why are you now taking me to deliverance training? My heart is for women affected by abortion, and you've called me to use fitness to share the gospel. And then I put it together.

I was like, oh my God, you're, you're building layers. Of course. And then it, through that, I walked through my own deliverance, which was a process. And then I understood, and He's continuing to do these things. He, He had me write the book and it was a process. It was two years of writing this book. Yeah. And through that process, He was healing, He was delivering, He was doing all of these things.

Yes. And then He starts rising me up to speak and I'm like, well, what are you doing? This is different. Oh, that's right. We're building layers. And I don't know where we're gonna continue going. But now He's taken it to you're an identity coach. 

[00:54:00] But He had to first get my identity Yep. secure. So, when I say, don't put God in a box, you're not the one who formed you. Yep. You know, Job 10:8 it says, You formed me with Your hands. You made me. Yeah. Job says that to our Creator. He says, You formed me with Your hands. You made me. Job didn't make himself. Amy didn't make herself. Leneé didn't make herself.

So how do I know what's in me? Yep. Yes. I, I have, I have attributes of the characteristics of God that He chose for me specifically to carry out the work. Just like we talked about in Philippians 1:6 there's a work He created me for before the foundation of the Earth. There are women that are only gonna be able to hear my voice.

Mm-hmm. That need it. There are women that are only gonna be able to hear your voice that need it. There are people that are only gonna be able to hear your listeners' voice you're that person that's gonna speak to those people. Absolutely. They are counting on you. Mm-hmm. To trust the Lord, to give Him your Yes.

And, I would encourage you to do it quickly 

[00:55:00] because whenever you delay on it, it, it just gets really, it gets harder. Harder, it gets harder, gets harder. So, I guess that's probably my advice. Don't put God in a box and please know that you are never too far gone from Him.

Your identity does not come from what happened to you? Yeah. It doesn't come from what you've done.  Your identity doesn't even come from what you achieve in this life. You could go out and do all these things. Your identity was put in you when you were formed in your mama's womb.

Yeah, that's right. Those pieces of Him that go in there, that's your identity. Yep. Yep.I tell people, if you did the math, if you did the probability and statistics of you being born versus another combination of the thousands of sperm that met potentially the, yeah, the one egg that formed you it's not an accident.

You were the one, it's intentional. It was so intentional. Mm-hmm. That's a beautiful message. 

I, I gotta tell you Sis, I'm just, I love that we met. It's just been great. I know. It's been fantastic. I know, and I think it's so cool that whenever we met, 

[00:56:00] He put us in a group and He named it The Daughters of the King.Yeah. Isn't that amazing? I was thinking about that. He did. Yeah. 

And so, I just wanna invite you listeners to, download this episode, share it with somebody who needs to hear it, re-listen to it. We're gonna drop Amy's info in the show notes. Would love to hear your comments, would love to hear from you.

Um, but Amy, I, I can't wait. I cannot wait to see really what both of our lives look like in the next five years because you and I both, we have such a heart for the lost. We're very evangelistic, and we just wanna be that vessel through which God works. That's right. And so, that's right. I'm excited. Let's go do this thing.

Let's do it. Thanks for being here, sis. Thank you for having me. It's been amazing. Thank you. 

Well, how are you feeling? I know that as I went back to get this episode ready to publish, 

[00:57:00] it stirred up a myriad of emotions in me. There were times I cried, there were times I laughed, and there were times that I came up swinging with a fire inside of me, like a warrior ready to come against the enemy, and really the enemy of my own soul.

So, if today stirred something in you -- grief, conviction, relief, or even anger, just know this, God can handle your honesty and you're safe with Him. 

If it was a meaningful episode, I'm just gonna ask you to help me spread the message. Hit subscribe, follow, so you are with us for what's coming next. Share this episode, post it, text it, send it to the woman you've been thinking about while you listened, and please leave a review and comment those few words.Tell the algorithm this matters and it helps other women find healing. And, and if you're listening and you're like, that's me. 

[00:58:00] I've been carrying shame, I've been afraid of God's punishment. I want you to reach out.  Again, your details may be totally different, but the heart of the matter is the same, so give me a buzz.  There's a little telephone there in the show notes. You can leave me a message, I promise I'll get back with you.

And even join the Facebook community called the Redeem Perfectionist. We're not doing this alone anymore. We can't. Grace is not permission to stay stuck. Grace is power to be made new. Happy New Year, Friend.

I'll see you next time.