Why Your ADHD Brain Is Accidentally Sabotaging Your Faith & Keeping You Stuck in a Perfectionism Loop with Emily Morrone | 034

Have you ever felt like your brain is going in a hundred directions at once — while your inner critic keeps telling you that you are not doing enough, not obeying fast enough, or not measuring up spiritually?

In this episode of The Redeemed Perfectionist, Leneé Pezzano closes out the ADHD, perfectionism, and faith series with Emily Morrone, an ADHD coach and licensed pastoral counselor. Together, they talk about the connection between ADHD, perfectionism, nervous system safety, rejection sensitivity, spiritual shame, and learning to rest in Jesus.

Emily shares how ADHD can show up as internal hyper-awareness, emotional overwhelm, control, avoidance, rejection sensitivity, and difficulty staying present. She also explains the green, yellow, and red zones of nervous system regulation — and how those states can affect the way we relate to God, ourselves, and others.

This conversation is especially for the high-achieving Christian woman who loves God deeply but still feels afraid of disappointing Him. If you have ever confused obedience with pressure, struggled to believe God is safe, or felt like your ADHD symptoms were proof of spiritual failure, this episode will help you begin seeing yourself through the lens of grace instead of shame.

Together, Leneé and Emily talk about:

•  Why ADHD is not a character flaw or spiritual failure 
•  How perfectionism can distort the way we see God 
•  Why rejection sensitivity can feel so intense for the ADHD brain 
•  What nervous system safety has to do with faith 
•  How control and avoidance may be signs of feeling threatened 
•  Why small steps matter in your walk with Jesus 
•  What it means to come to God with belief and unbelief 
•  How to begin rebuilding trust with God when He does not feel safe yet 
•  Why your mustard seed of faith really is enough to begin 

If you are tired of striving, overthinking, shutting down, or trying to fix everything immediately, this episode is an invitation to stop calling yourself broken and start asking, “Lord, what are You showing me about how You made me, how You love me, and how You want to lead me?”

God is not waiting for you to become perfect before He draws near.
 He is here now.
 He is gentle now.
 And He is a safe place.

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Transcript

Why Your ADHD Brain Is Accidentally Sabotaging Your Faith & Keeping You Stuck in a Perfectionism Loop with Emily Morrone | 034

Have you ever wrestled with the question, "Am I enough?" Only to consistently feel like the answer is no.Like, no matter how hard you tried, how much you gave, how good you were, how obedient you were, how much you produced, how much you showed up, it just never quite added up.

 Or maybe you're the one who feels everything. Every look someone gives you, every moment you fall short, every expectation, real or imagined, that you somehow didn't meet, and nobody told you that your brain may actually be designed to notice more, feel more, process more, and carry a level of hyper-awareness that can be both beautiful and exhausting.

And nobody told you that God knew exactly what He was doing when He wired you that way You might have been carrying both of these things at the same time, 

[00:01:00] the perfectionism and the scattered everywhere brain, and you've been exhausted trying to manage them both alone. If that's you, this episode is for you. Today, we're gonna talk about what it looks like to finally stop managing and start connecting.

Connecting with your body and the truth and the way God designed you. And most importantly, connecting with Jesus as the true vine. Not as another taskmaster, but as the safe place your soul has been longing for. In today's episode, we are going to round out our series on ADHD and faith and perfectionism.

We'll talk about nervous system safety, rejection sensitivity, control and avoidance and overwhelm and all the things. And what it looks like to walk with God when your brain feels like it's going in 100 directions at 

[00:02:00] once. And we're gonna talk about why obedience does not have to mean fixing everything immediately.

Small steps really do matter. Your mustard seed of faith really is enough to begin And coming to God just as you are with your belief and your unbelief and your questions and your overwhelm and fear and shame, that's actually one of the most powerful forms of worship. If you're new here, welcome. My name is Lenee’ Pezzano, and I am host of The Redeemed Perfectionist podcast and an author and a mentor and, yeah, still being redeemed from perfectionism and ADHD.

And I want to help high-achieving Christian women break up with striving and disarm the fear and pressure that perfectionism often creates And help you know that you can live from the freedom of God's grace instead of the exhaustion of 

[00:03:00] performance. I basically am trying to help you discover that God is a safe place.

'Cause I know what it feels like to love Him so deeply and still be afraid of Him. I know what it feels like to confuse obedience with pressure, and to carry this inner critic so loud that God's voice can be unrecognizable because of the filters of shame and fear and punishment. And I know what it feels like when His perfect love begins to cast out that fear, and you start to realize that God is not waiting for you to clean yourself up before He draws near.

He is near now. He is gentle now. And He is teaching you now. And that is exactly why this conversation matters. If you've been following along, maybe this series has given language to things you have carried for a long time. 

[00:04:00] And maybe you've started to realize that what you thought was laziness or inconsistency or lack of discipline, that's a big one, and spiritual failure, it might actually all have to do with the way your brain is wired.

And maybe, like me, that realization has started to bring both relief and grief, honestly, relief because suddenly so many things make sense, and grief because, you know, we spend years calling ourselves broken when God was actually inviting us into understanding and compassion and healing and, and support from Him, and grace for ourselves.

So if you missed the earlier episodes in this series, I encourage you, go back and listen. There's so much in there. Each conversation has literally touched a different piece of 

[00:05:00] this puzzle. The high-functioning woman, the overwhelmed woman, the woman who looks like she's got it all together on the outside, and inside she's really just fighting to keep up.

You can easily find all previous episodes by going to my website at leneepezzano.com. That’s L-E-N-E-E P-E-Z-Z-A-N-O.com, and you can easily click on any topic that is interesting to you and catch up. Today’s conversation with Emily Morrone is such a beautiful way to close out this series. Emily is a coach who specializes in ADHD, and what I love about her approach is she does not separate the practical and physical parts of ADHD from the spiritual reality of our connection with God.

She helps us look at the mind and the body and the soul and the nervous system through the lens of faith and safety, through the lens of 

[00:06:00] grace and identity. In this conversation, Emily shares her own journey from thinking she had one plan for her life to realizing God was gently leading her somewhere else.

We talk about what it means to be connected to Jesus as the true vine. We talk about the green, yellow, and red zones of our nervous system, and we talk about how control and avoidance can show up when we feel threatened, and why the ADHD brain can be so sensitive to rejection, expectations, and perceived failure.

And we certainly talk about how to begin rebuilding trust with God when you know the right Christian answer in your head, but your heart is still struggling to believe He’s safe, good, and kind toward you. Okay, friend, let’s get into today’s conversation with Emily.

Audio Only - All Participants: 

[00:07:00] know, Emily, we are wrapping up our series on ADHD, and you, my friend, are a coach. You specialize in ADHD. And I think what I'm most excited about today is the fact that you will bring, in addition to the physical aspects of it, the connection to the faith, the Christian, the spiritual side of things, and I really can't wait to 

see where the Lord takes us today.

Let's start at the beginning a little bit to set the table for our listeners. I believe, if I remember our pre-talk, you were pre-med dental, and then- Yes, I was ... something changed. So what took you down the road of ADHD coaching? Tell us a little bit about you. Well, that is very true. I always envisioned myself in scrubs, when I thought about myself.

 I remember I thought, "I always hone in on people's teeth, 

[00:08:00] so maybe that's what I should do." And so I told the Lord, not asking, I just told Him, "Hey, I'm gonna do this for your kingdom. I can give, free dental work, go on missions trips," I had it all planned out. even up until retirement.

Like, I had a plan. Okay. A- and it sounded great, but then I got into college. I took organic chemistry, and I was like, "Uh, maybe this isn't the path." Maybe not. And so,there was so much that the Lord was trying to lead me in, but I just wasn't open to it. And it... Finally, when I did come to that point where I humbled myself and was like, you know- this is a plan that I came up with, but I truly believe that your way is better."

And as soon as that, I felt like a weight off my shoulders. And it's so neat, if you look at my transcripts, you can, see the shift. 'Cause it went from, As and Bs, occasionally a C, and that's that organic chemistry. But, but it went from that, and I made straight As for the rest of my, undergrad.

[00:09:00] 

And so, I was just leaning into the Lord, saying, "Okay, what is this?" And I keep hearing people are like, "You would make such a great teacher," and all this stuff. And I just didn't like that idea. 'Cause my sister, my older sister, as we were kids, she was the one that always wanted to be the teacher. when we were in a summer break, she would have us come in, sit in a desk, and teach us, and we would have our little trays, like lunch.

 she was all about- Oh, yeah ... that. So I was like, "No, no, that's not for me," you know? But- ... praise the Lord that He always has better plans. And, I recently moved back home. I got plugged into a home church. And in that, the Lord's "Hey, I want you to be a teacher of life." Mm-hmm. And in my head, I was like, "Of course, biology."

Um, so I- ... I'm a very quick thinking. So, I became a science teacher, and I taught for seven years. Um, I got a Master's 

[00:10:00] of Arts in Teaching. And just through that teaching process and getting to see the different kinds of neurodivergency in the classrooms that I had, and then later learning and discovering that this is in my family as well.

 my dad was diagnosed with ADHD, and my brother, he deals with, anxiety. so does my mom. And the- so you knew- Yeah ... this going in? that term neurodivergent was not foreign to you? It was not, just because in that teaching realm. now in my classes, my education, we didn't talk about that at all.

 it was in there just a tiny bit, but not too much. Yeah. So our, just putting this out there for those are, that are listening, a lot of the teachers that your kids are seeing don't have a lot of training or knowledge about neurodivergency in the classroom. And that's where- 

[00:11:00] I could see it was a very gentle and gradual leading where the Lord's like, "Hey, I'm preparing you to step out of the classroom, to step into counseling and ADHD coaching."

And taking that was definitely an interesting turn, because I learned more about myself as I was growing in my knowledge and finding out like, oh, this makes sense why when I was younger I struggled a lot with, my emotions, and I struggled a lot with feeling like am I enough, am I good enough, and struggled with, not being enough, even though no one was expecting me to have this high expectation, but it was just me.

 even to the point, like, when I didn't achieve what I thought I should have, this is silly. I look back, I'm like, wow, that was really silly, but it was so real to 

[00:12:00] me. Mm-hmm. And I was

I'm stubborn. 'Cause when I graduated, with my undergrad, I wasn't, cum laude or any of that. It was, like, a 3.3, 3.4, something along those lines. Not a bad GPA at all. Right. But because I didn't have the title- Yep ... of, like, honors, I didn't walk. Yep. I totally get it.

 that's how hard, I was on myself to where it's like, hey, you got a degree, but guess what? Because you didn't get it in the way you wanted, you're not gonna walk for it. Wow. And my parents were like- Whew ... why? And I'm just like- Yeah ... I couldn't give them a reason. I was just like, "'Cause I don't want to."

Period. You know? Yeah. Like, like isn't it amazing how quickly we can stick a stake in the ground of the- Mm-hmm ... truth as we define it? Right. And yet, I think back to why couldn't I be as stubborn with God's truth? But, okay. Exactly 

And you know what else I find interesting that stands out to 

[00:13:00] me is, we know the scripture, "In his heart a man plans his course, but the Lord determines his steps." I could sit here and tell you stories of the number of times I learned the hard way, and then I'd go back and I'd say, "Okay, Lord.

Not my will but yours," and I'd humble myself, and he would give me a truth. he gave you this truth of you're gonna be a teacher of life, and then you ran with that, right? I would do- Yeah ... the same thing. I would do the same thing, and I would just finish the story for God instead of- Mm-hmm ... ask more questions.

But I wanna point something out, and the reason I'm honing in on this is because as perfectionists, we get all caught up in having to make the perfect decision. Right. But God- allowed you to just run with the biology teacher thing, and that may or may not have been His perfect will. it certainly was His permissible will.

And look at what He 

[00:14:00] did with that. Like- Right ... that's amazing to me, and I want to encourage us all in the perfectionist realm to give ourselves permission to look back on our life and let ourselves meditate on those kinds of things where God permitted us to make certain decisions that- Yeah ... ended up being a part of the story, I guess, is what I'm trying to say.

Yeah. Well, and one of my favorite stories is of, Jonah. So when we look at Jonah, God came up to him and says, "Hey, I want you to go to..." Nineveh, He said, "I want you to go there," because there was a purpose. It was the people of Nineveh. Yeah. But Jonah, he was like, "No.

They don't worship correctly." there was a lot of pride. And so what he did, he willfully disobeyed the Lord, right? Mm. Mm, mm. God told him what to do, and he said, "Nah, I'm not doing that." And so he 

[00:15:00] goes the opposite direction. And then while he's in the boat, the storm comes, and all the men are like, "What is going on?

Who made their god angry?" And so they point out Jonah, and it's like, "It has to be that guy." And so they throw him off, and then the storm stops. And he finds himself in that moment, and that's where he humbles himself. He's like, "Okay, Lord." Okay, I'm in. And what's so beautiful is that when he is spit out, he's spit right on the beach going to Nineveh.

Mm-hmm. And so one of the things that has given me such a comfort in his story, and I'm so thankful for his disobedience in this sense, is because we look at a man who was willfully disobedient, and God still used that for other people to recognize Him. Yeah. 'Cause the people on the boat - Amen

they were able to recognize that God, that's, that's a real god, right? 

[00:16:00] But within, I think about us, those who are trying our best- Yeah ... to follow God's voice, to follow His Word, those, trying to get it as best as we can, and we're so hard on ourselves because we're like, "Well, what if I take one wrong step?"

I'm like, well, if this guy- That's right ... who knew what he was supposed to do still ended up where he was supposed to be- Yeah ... with all that disobedience, how much better and how much more- Yeah ... are you ... You're not gonna miss it. Yeah, yeah. You're not gonna miss it. and, to be clear, we're not encouraging you all to just go sin and be disobedient- Oh

any time of the night. No, no, no. But I think it's beautiful that also in his disobedience, God protected him through the thing- Yeah ... that should have killed him. Right. So there's so many things we could unpack in that story. Mm-hmm. But only God knows what you and I should, I put air 

[00:17:00] quotes- Yeah

know, should know at the spiritual age we are. Right. Who knows? I don't know how many times God spoke to Jonah. I don't know how many times- Mm-hmm ... He set proper expectations and Jonah was disobedient. I don't know the history, of the relationship between Jonah and God. Right. You know, maybe there was so much more mercy because maybe this was a whole new level of- Yeah

exposure God was bringing to Jonah's character, and then was going to set expectations from there and teach him. it's just such a beautiful example of- Mm-hmm ... not needing to be perfect. Exactly ... I th- I just love that. And, uh, and I, but I don't wanna go down that rabbit trail too much 'cause we have so much more to cover.

 Right So you obviously then were very familiar with neurodivergent truths and realities, and at this point you're a Christian. 

[00:18:00] And you also at this point it sounds like knew the need to stay and be connected to God. Yes. So let's talk about how you began to realize where he was taking you, and then what that connection journey has looked like, and then how that's translated into the way that you help others.

Yeah, absolutely. One of the biggest things with somebody that has a neurodivergent brain, specifically with ADHD, that H part, the hyperactive, a lot of the times we think of that as, the external thing. We see it externally. There's a hyperness. But there's also an internal hyper-awareness. Mm.

 Jesus is talking about how he's the vine and we are the branches. he's not surprised by the way that our brains are designed. He designed them. Mm. And so he knew 

[00:19:00] that we had to make sure that we were always connected to him. He's the source. And so what I've learned through my coaching and through all the classes that I've taken is the connection between our minds and our bodies and our souls, and how vital it is to make sure that it's anchored, that it's connected to the source.

Mm. To the true vine. 'cause we can try to find a lot of things to fulfill those needs that we have, but they're really all counterfeits. think of it as a ladder.

 So when we're connected and safe, we're in a green zone. We're connected with our bodies, our feelings. We're connected with those around us. We're connected with our environment. We're very present, and that's a big thing the Lord encourages us to say, "Hey, don't worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself."

He speaks a lot about being present, and 

[00:20:00] that's so powerful. Being present with him, think of Mary and Martha, right?

Mary was sitting at Jesus' feet, and she was present, and Jesus told Martha, "Hey, she has chosen what is better, and it won't be taken away from her." Now, was Martha wrong? No. But Martha was focusing on the wrong thing. And while Jesus was a guest in her home and she was preparing, as we all do for guests, right, and also for the disciples, we can see Martha's side, and honestly, we can really get behind Martha and be like, "Yeah, we should be mad at Mary."

But Jesus says, no, she's chosen what better, and it's because Mary was present. Mm-hmm. And so what happens is it could be, and especially for the ADHD brain, it could be a very real threat, like where it's real danger is about to approach, or most cases, it's perceived. Yeah. I 

[00:21:00] think that this is something that's bad that just happened.

Yeah. Yeah. And it doesn't take much because of that hyper-awareness. It could just be, like, a look that someone gave, and you're like, "Did I do something wrong?" You know? It doesn't take much. But it triggers our brain to go move down in, the ladder into, this yellow zone. We're cautious now.

Yeah, yeah. And this is the fight or flight. Yes. And so how do we fight? A lot of times we think of it as, physical fighting, but I think the hidden way that we fight, or what we don't think of as fighting, is this is where we reach for control. Cause control feels good. It feels like I'm doing something positive, I'm taking hold of this, and I'm owning it.

 but in fact, it's disconnecting us. Yeah. We're moving down. Mm-hmm. We're moving away from that connection between our minds and our bodies, and we're just hanging out in our minds when we try to control. And or we do the opposite, we try to 

[00:22:00] run away, so we have avoidance behaviors. We avoid, right?

Still disconnection because when that happens, when we are triggered, it shoots straight up into our brain. So what are feelings? That doesn't matter. We're in danger. Feelings don't matter in that. But that's not true, 'cause feelings are not bad. God created us with feelings, and he created these emotions because they're indicators of, hey, something's going on, and I think it's a invitation for, he's like, let's sit Let's talk about why are you feeling this?

What is happening?" Because He wants to remind you that, "Hey, you are safe. I am the good shepherd. You dwell in safe pastures," right? He wants to remind us that we have security within Him. Now, is there actual real danger? Sure. But we have to remind ourselves what is true. And so 

[00:23:00] that's where if we can catch ourselves in that yellow zone and reconnect, we can get back to that green zone.

But oftentimes, especially when we struggle with rejection, which is something that ADHD brains tend to struggle with so much, it's just how their brains are wired, or we're struggling with, just the weight of the expectations that we've placed on us or the perceived expectations that others have placed on us, we can fall down the ladder into a red zone, and this is that freeze.

This is where we completely disconnect- We numb ourselves out, and this is where it's very dangerous to be in the zone. This is intense danger because we're so disconnected with our bodies, with our souls, that this is where we can find why people get so down to a point where they're like, "I just don't wanna live anymore.

 There's hopelessness. What's the 

[00:24:00] point? That's the big- Yeah ... question. What is even the point? Yes. And that's where we have to remember we need to go back to connection. And my pastor said this two weeks ago, and it's just been sitting with me. He said, "God is more concerned about your character development than your discomfort."

Yep. And is He the God of comfort? Yes, but that doesn't mean that our lives won't have times where we're sitting in discomfort, because He wants us to get connected again. Yeah. And the only way we can do that is getting uncomfortable. Yes. Because sometimes it's uncomfortable to sit with ourselves and to look at our cross, 'cause we all have a cross to bear.

I agree. I think that what I find so fascinating, even about my own story, which I think resonates with so many of the listeners, 

[00:25:00] is- The truths that you're speaking work really well when you already trust to a degree that God- Mm-hmm ... really is the safe space.

Yeah. if we take the scientific explanation that you just gave with the ladder, and we mix that and combine it with the underlying belief system that we perfectionists- Right ... have carried into our relationship with God- Yeah ... now it becomes very clear the layers that we have to unpack to get to a new foundation.

Because think about it, if your foundation is built upon the belief that you're only accepted and you're only a part of the in crowd, kingdom crowd- Yeah ... if you obey, and you believe that God is 

[00:26:00] literally angry every time you disobey, and you show up with this fear of punishment, right?

Then things that should not be triggers are automatic triggers for you- Right ... because of this belief system. And so you are constantly perceiving the world around you as a threat. and I knew none of this. When God began to reveal that I had a real struggle with perfectionism, I had no idea that it was simply the symptom of an underlying belief system about how I viewed Him.

Yeah. And as His perfect love began to cast out fear, you know, talk about get to the root and all the- Mm-hmm ... fruit will change and fall off. you know, the dead fruit will... Literally, you heal- Yeah ... the root, you heal the fruit. Right. so how have you navigated this process of healing for people 

[00:27:00] who can't just jump into the belief that God is good and safe?

That's a great question. What I find to be the most helpful When we're struggling with that belief. And I always love to go back to the man in the New Testament who approaches Jesus, and he's like, "Hey, I do believe, but help me overcome my unbelief." Exactly. Where we can hold both think of, a pair of pants.

In one pocket I got belief, but in the other pocket I have unbelief. we can wear both at the same time. But the biggest thing that I... First, I help them acknowledge, just awareness is so powerful, of what is happening when we feel triggered. Do we feel it in our bodies first, or is it a thought? Mm.

Or is it vice versa? And so that helps us first tackle the initial response. So maybe we need to calm our bodies down first before then we can 

[00:28:00] tackle what thought came across. Or if it was a thought that then triggered a emotional or physical response, let's tackle that thought. So it depends on- Yes

what's happening when something does trigger us. what's our immediate response? And that's where we can start. the biggest thing is starting with the little steps. And it feels little and it feels small, but it's so big, especially with people with ADHD. There's a term that I learned called, I think it's eat the frog.

Mm. And so this term tells you, do the hardest thing first. Mm. But that is a sure way to lead an ADHD person to burn out, because they need to build. Yep. There's needs to be momentum. So it's like, no, let's not do the hardest thing first. Let's be realistic, and let's see what is the first step. Mm. Just one step.

Yeah. That's all we can take. And then we gradually move. 

[00:29:00] 'Cause it's a process. And- Right ... and that's what is so beautiful, The Lord also is like that, too. We can see point A to point B, but he's like, but it's in the little steps- Yeah ... where I get to be with you, being present. And 'cause at the end of the day, he just wants to connect with us.

 Yeah. that was a fascinating revelation for me. Because for me, revelation of perfectionism came first. Mm-hmm. And, we're talking 20 years into my walk with Jesus. So imagine how many years I was just walking in fear of punishment. he honored my obedience all those years, but- Most of the time it was not, a very intimate relationship.

Yeah. I was a servant. I was constantly a servant versus a daughter. Yeah. And, didn't really understand my identity in the Lord. So perfectionism was first, then I got the revelation just recently of the ADHD stuff. So now I'm like, "Oh, well this makes perfect 

[00:30:00] sense." Mm-hmm. You know? I remember as a perfectionist the pressure to get to the destination, yet the amount of fear and overwhelm that the ADHD part of me was experiencing.

So I had these two natures literally, inside of me at war with one another. And, and I remember before the ADHD revelation, some of the sweetest people who I trusted, Spirit-led, would say to me, it's a process, Lenee'. It's okay." And I'm like, "But- Yeah ... but no, He wants immediate obedience.

Like, right now. I have to obey Him right now." Obedience to me was different. I had to fix the whole thing. It was an all or none. Yeah. Mm-hmm. There's no in between. There's no permission for the process. When I began to allow people to speak truth into me, when I began to let my walls down 

[00:31:00] enough to say, "Okay, I don't know if this is real, but what I'm doing isn't working."

Yeah. "So I'm gonna trust all these other people- Yeah ... that are telling me that God's not mad at me right now." Yeah. And I began to give myself permission, and to your point, that is when I more easily started to come out of- Mm-hmm ... fight or flight, the yellow and the red zones. I could get present, and I began to learn the voice of God in a whole new way.

Yeah. I didn't discount the part of God that says, "Hey, I still have standards," right? "I still require- Mm-hmm ... obedience, but I want to help you walk- Exactly ... out that obedience. I want you to take my hand and become yoked with me, connected- Exactly ... to your point. I'm not waiting for you to clean yourself up, get all perfect, then I accept you.

Mm-hmm. I picked you in your imperfection, and I said, 'What I did on the 

[00:32:00] cross fills in the gaps. Whatever you're not capable of, I am.'" And that's grace. That's grace. Yeah. And so it has completely changed, my entire walk with myself, with God, with others. That's my heart and mission, is to help people become aware and go, "Oh my gosh, I think that's me.

Okay, now I need to do these things that, you know- Yeah ... Emily and Lenee' are talking about right now." So it's very powerful to start that. Yeah, and I love that you, what you said. I had, I've been meditating on a couple of scriptures, but Colossians 3. just the beginning of Colossians 3 is so great.

But in that Colossians 3, we can see past, present, and future, and it says that, "For we died," meaning- The past. There's a dead self that we died to. But it, then it goes on to say, "And our 

[00:33:00] lives are now hidden", which is in the present, "hidden in Christ", and that we get to share within His glory. That is future.

And so we can see that our lives are hidden in Christ, and He doesn't hide it in the sense of like, ooh, I'm teasing you, or you'll never know, it's a secret. No, that's not it. It's that it's something to be found. Mm. Something to be discovered. Yeah. And He wants you to discover it. And how do we discover it?

By walking with Him. Mm-hmm. Because following Jesus is really just a practice. Mm-hmm. And, you know, you think about, our doctors, lawyers, even in counseling, they're called practices. Yeah. And so- That's good ... of course, when you see your doctor, you would hope they are very knowledgeable in what they're doing.

But the thing is, it's still a practice. Yeah. It's something we're growing in. We're still learning so many new things, and we have to practice, and it's the same thing with following Jesus. When we say 

[00:34:00] yes, and our yes is all He requires. Yeah, yeah. He just says, "Do you wanna follow me?" Yep. That's it.

And once the ADHD revelation came and I started getting all of these oh my goodness moments- Mm-hmm ... everything started to make sense. I no longer felt like this broken thing that needed fixed. Right. And, when I think about what you're saying, I think of disciple, right?

Mm-hmm. I think of the word disciple and how it really connects to the word student. Yeah. And, and that is a process, right? To your point, if somebody's becoming a doctor or a pilot- Mm-hmm ... we hope that they've had a lot of hours they've put into becoming that thing. Yes. and yet Hebrews talks about no discipline seems pleasant at the time.

That's right. I used to think of that scripture as no punishment seems pleasant. Mm-hmm. No correction seems pleasant. 

[00:35:00] And, there's some truths inside that word to that concept, but think of it like no practice seems pleasant at the time. My flesh doesn't like to have to practice over and over- Right

or to have to be pruned or to have to be exercised. Mo- Mm-hmm. Yeah ... a lot of people, don't necessarily love to get up and work out or exercise- Yeah ... healthy habits. I say this all the time. We are not born with a nature that is so excited to follow the Lord and do everything He says. Right.

Because if that were true, scripture wouldn't say that our flesh is contrary to the Spirit. Yeah. that our carnal mind is enmity toward the Lord. We have to understand the nature we're born with- Yeah ... is already willfully against the living God. Yeah. Yeah. And we have to choose these things.

And no discipline seems pleasant at the time- Exactly ... but later on it produces a harvest of 

[00:36:00] righteousness. Right. So therein lies the heart of God. Like, no, I'm literally taking you through this for your sake- Mm-hmm. Yeah ... for you to become that thing, that assignment, that whatever- Right ... that I've wanted you to become.

 Right So yeah, this has all been so exciting to flip the rhetoric. and this is all- Yeah ... this is how you be transformed by the renewing of your mind. That's right. And that's a big thing. I love what Jesus said about when we feel those heavy burdens of life, when we're weary, I would say when we're in those yellow and red zones.

He says, "Come to me all who are weary and heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." And when we hear it, we have an idea of what rest looks like, but then this is the next part. He says, "Take my yoke upon you." when we hear yoke, we tend to think of eggs, but it's that yoke that they put between oxen.

[00:37:00] 

Right. And they put those yoke, and they're yoked up because they're about to go to work. Mm-hmm. They're about to plow the fields. And he says, "Take upon my yoke and let me teach you." Yeah. Let me teach you. And so rest in the Lord is moving. It's active. It's ... Sometimes it looks like work, you know? But He's there to teach us, and He says, "Because I'm humble and I'm gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your soul."

And then He reminds us, "'Cause my yoke, it's easy, and the burden I give you is light." So we do have a burden to carry. Amen. We do have this, but it shouldn't be as heavy as it is. So that's one of those things, especially that we have to see and ask the Lord, okay, am I carrying your yoke? Am I carrying your burden, or did I throw a bunch of stuff on it- Amen

that you didn't ask me to carry, or you 

[00:38:00] don't want me to carry? And that's a big part of helping us also, kind of going back to your question, how do you help those get back to that connection? There's three questions that I encourage my clients to sit in with and get uncomfortable. Mm-hmm. And those three questions, we start in order.

Number one, it's helping to build that foundation. Is God real? Is he real? And if you can't say yes to that question, then we need to go back to why did you choose to follow him in the first place? Amen. look at those cornerstones he's placed in his life, the evidence, right?

'Cause he has, faith is the evidence of things that are unseen. So there's some stuff there. So remind ourselves, is he real? Then once you get past that question, you can say yes. We go to question two. Is he good? Is he good? And if we can't say yes, then we need to go 

[00:39:00] back. Look at his word.

Look at the testimony that you have, 'cause you have a testimony, and it's powerful. And then once we get to say, "Yes, he's good," the last question is, does he love me? Amen. Does he love me? And if that's what stops you, and a lot of the times that's what stops me at that third question, I'm like, "I don't know if he really does."

But I have to sit with it, and be like, you know what? Where has he shown me where he hasn't loved me? Yeah. And that stops me right there, 'cause I'm like, there hasn't been a moment- Yeah ... where he hasn't shown me that. He's like, "Hey, Emily, I don't love you." Yeah. Never. Yes. In fact, there's so many ways where he says, "I loved you first."

Yeah. "I loved you first." I do very similar things with folks I mentor, and there's one other aspect I bring into the mix that had to work for me because I got to a 

[00:40:00] point where I was trying to be delivered- Mm-hmm ... intellectually. Mm. And I needed to be delivered experientially. Now, it started with the intellect.

It started with reading and, theoretically, I was like, "Okay, I'm understanding that there's truths to these scriptures, but there is a disconnect between my head and my heart." Right. Yeah. And one of the things I've been doing with the group lately is, we've been practicing hearing the word of God for ourselves.

Yeah. I'll give you an example first. I was in a group one time and was prompted with the question, "Does God love me?" And we were all supposed to get quiet with the Lord in our journals and ask Him this question. And it was funny because my flesh rose up and I was like, "Uh, duh, yes, He does love me," right?

Like, that's the Christian 

[00:41:00] answer. Yeah. But I was like, "Oh, I guess I'll play along." the pride was ridiculous. But I played along- Yeah ... and I said, "Okay, Lord, do you love me?" And I sat and I listened. Mm-hmm. And, you know, that can be a complicated exercise 'cause our heads get in the way as perfectionists, even as ADHD.

But, you know- Yeah ... I was gonna fight through, and I was like, "Okay, we're gonna do this." And immediately, the first word that came was limitlessly. Mm-hmm. And I was shocked by it. I knew that I didn't think of that word. I immediately was like, "Oh, he is talking to me." Yeah. And, "Oh my gosh, he didn't just give me the standard yes or no."

So he said limitlessly, and I said, "Oh God, tell me more." Yeah. Like I- once I knew it was him, I got all excited, and I'm like- Yeah ... "Tell me more." And at this point, th- this wasn't happening in my head, right? Mm-hmm. This was happening in the deepest areas of my 

[00:42:00] gut, in my loins if you will. Yeah. In my heart, right?

Yeah. That's the heart area. And so he began to say, "There is absolutely nothing that can keep me separ-..." And then He just started pouring His love. Yeah. And because I knew it was Him and believed it was Him, I was able to settle down my nervous system and be present. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know? That is all very much a practice, and you have to have- Yeah

those moments to build upon each other. the voice of God has to be learned. Mm-hmm. this is all part of through the years what people told me inner healing was about. I'd go to these inner healing prayers, and they would help me hear God's voice, but I've gotten better at being able to hear Him for myself personally.

Yeah. Hear, not through the filters of rejection, not through punishment- Yeah ... not in my head, but deep down in my loins. And so- Yeah ... you know, 

[00:43:00] my encouragement to the listeners is if you're not there, if you don't feel confident being able to hear the word of God for yourself, get with people who are Spirit-led, who you can trust their discernment until you feel you've grown that muscle.

Yeah. because it's going to change your entire journey to be- Mm-hmm ... able to connect with God in that way experientially. Yeah, absolutely. And that makes me think of, I think it was Elijah, where he ran away from Jezebel- And he found himself, and the angel of the Lord, or, appeared to him. And I love it, though, like, God will take care of the physical needs- Yes

sometimes first. Yeah. So he slept, he ate, he drank. he had covering. So sometimes we have to ask ourselves like- Yeah ... what do I physically need right now? Am I thirsty? Yeah. Am I hungry? And that's a whole other thing to unpack, because the way that our brains are wired, 

[00:44:00] that can hijack- Mm-hmm

us actually knowing what we need. But sometimes we just need a good nap. Yeah. Yes. Sometimes. But in that moment, there was so much happening. you had, a mountain breaking, and rocks were falling, and the wind was blowing, and there was a fire, and it said in all those things, but the Lord wasn't in it.

Yeah. But what He was in was a still, small voice. And what I take away from that when I read it is I think it was a still, small voice because the Lord is near. He is right next to us. And,me and you, we're talking together. I don't need to yell at you 'cause we're close. I don't need to scream your name ' cause you're right here.

And that's where the Lord's like, "I don't need to yell at you. I don't need to scream at you, because I am right here." Yeah. He is close. And that's where we have to be able to be still- Yes ... and know that He is God. And that's 

[00:45:00] hard. That's hard to get in that stillness, because it's uncomfortable. Yeah. but that's where when we do, when we practice that, like you said, get around people that can show you how do we practice that, and then we can hear that still, small voice.

Because He's talking. Yep. He's talking. We just, we're not yet quite in a place where we're ready to receive it. Right. and it takes practice. Right. 'Cause we live in such a distracted world. and that's really, I think, the goal of the enemy, is to keep us distracted- Right ... in whichever way that we can.

And with the ADHD mind, it's not that you lack attention, even though it's called attention deficit. It's not that you have a deficit of attention. It's in fact that you're so hyper-aware, your attention is everywhere. Everywhere. And so we have to hone it in, and that's the hard part, is honing it in. And that's, in that case, being present is hard, 

[00:46:00] because we're always everywhere.

 one of the previous episodes in this series, a sister in the Lord, Cassie- She actually had a hard time getting diagnosed because she was so high-functioning, high-achieving as a career woman. And that's been- Yeah ... my journey as well. The people on the outside are looking at us like, "There's no way you're ADHD."

Yeah. And because we have the capacity- Mm-hmm ... the superpower to do a lot of things, and to produce, and we just have higher capacity than maybe others, and we're considered overachievers. Yeah. But nobody understands what's going on on the inside. Right. And just how incredibly everywhere our brains are.

Mm-hmm. And so truly to learn to flow with the rhythm of how we're wired, and staying connected to God, like, it... I, 

[00:47:00] I no longer think I have to fix my brain. I do need to channel it. there are aspects of discipline that I do need. I thrive in structure. Right. You know, most ADHD folks do.

Yes, they do. Perfectionists hate structure a lot of times. Mm-hmm. they either are so incredibly rigid, or, it's just too much. Like, they can't get to their destination. it's quite an interesting mix, Yeah, it definitely is. but I think, again, you're never gonna be let down if you pursue the Lord.

Yeah. If you keep asking and you keep seeking and you keep knocking. Here I am 31 years into my walk with the Lord. I'm only in the last, not even 10 years, aware of these labels that I now- Mm-hmm ... resonate with. And yet, all of the best practices that every 

[00:48:00] expert teaches, God's been teaching this whole time.

Yep. 1 John says, "You have the anointing that no man need to teach you," yet He provides teachers for body life. it's okay. We're able to hold both, right? Mm-hmm. Like we've talked about. it's so fascinating and encouraging. 'Cause at the end of the day, none of the labels matter because in Jesus we're overcomers, and by His Spirit we're led into all truth.

Yep. we can create new neural pathways. Mm-hmm. We can learn to flow according to His rhythm, and we can expect that we're safe no matter what. I mean- Yeah ... that's it, right? Yeah, absolutely. And that's what, We tend to forget moving to a new rhythm, and our brains are able to... They're flexible, and they have neuroplasticity, and they can create these new pathways, but the core of it is that practice.

Yeah. It's every day 

[00:49:00] waking up and say, "Okay, I'm gonna choose to practice this." Yes. And what's hard is consistency is hard for everybody, but consistency is really hard for someone with an neurodivergent brain, 'cause we get bored. and that's the thing, is sometimes following Jesus isn't glamorous. Yeah.

Sometimes it's ordinary, and it's boring, but it's in that ordinary and boring where the extraordinary can come out of it. it makes me think of Romans 5 when Paul is talking about rejoicing when we run into problems and trials. But he says, "We know that they help us develop endurance, and that endurance help us develop strength of character, and that character strengthens our confident hope of salvation."

And this is my favorite part in this translation. And it says, "This hope will not lead to disappointment." Yep. And I think that's the biggest thing, There's this question at the end of it all, and it's lingering, and we don't like it, 

[00:50:00] because it makes us feel bad. But if we're honest with ourselves, sometimes we think, "Is this worth it?"

 is Jesus really worth it? Is this just gonna lead to disappointment? and that's uncomfortable. Yeah. Because like you said, in your head you already know the answer. Right. But in your heart, if we're being honest with what we feel in our hearts and our souls, that's where we have to get back- Yeah

and say, "Hey, I can come to God with my uncomfortable questions." In fact, He wants us to come with it, 'cause He's like, "Okay, let me teach you. Come to me." Yes. Yes. "Let me teach you." Yeah. "And you don't have to be scared." Yeah. Like you said- Yeah ... His perfect love casts out all fear. And so we sometimes are afraid of our questions, 'cause we already know that question is not a good one.

But- Well- ... God's saying, "Hey, bring it to me though." E- exactly. And that's been the hardest part for me, is coming just as I am, right? That's another 

[00:51:00] Christian phrase we kick around a lot. But do you really believe God is inviting you to come literally just as you are? Coming with what you're angry about, coming with your unbelief, coming with your sin that you still carry and have yet to conquer.

 what is it you would tell your best friend? Yeah. And if you're not able to have that same conversation with God, that is an indicator that you still have doubts about the reality of the relationship, come just as I am. I have had to practice, so let's go back to practice.

This is some- Yeah ... of the stuff that I am practically applying in my life today. and I just did it last night. I'll sit on the couch, and I will literally turn my body as if He's sitting right next to me and we're about to have a talk. And there are days when that little movement, I can 

[00:52:00] feel shame rise up inside of me.

Yeah. And I have to take captive my thought and say, no. Whatever belief is still attached to shame, I choose to break up with that right now- Mm ... in the name of Jesus." And then I carry on, right? I carry on, and I'm like, "Hi, Lord." And I'll even reach over as if we're holding hands, and I will begin to pray, but in a conversation-like manner, and I will talk with Him.

but I've had to practice this, Emily. this is not something that's come so naturally. Yeah. And I'm feeling more secure, I'm feeling more safe, and I'm literally excited because I know that no matter what my struggle, I can run to the Lord. Right. And I think of the woman at the well, and I think of what He said to her when He said, "There will be a day when they will worship me in spirit and truth."

And I remember the Lord showing me it is a form of 

[00:53:00] worship when- Yeah ... you come in truth. Like when- That's right ... you're coming just as you are, you're worshiping me in truth. Yeah. That's good. That is so sweet. That's so precious. But I want the listeners to know you don't just flip a switch- Mm-hmm ... and all of a sudden you feel safe in the Lord's presence necessarily.

You just- Yeah ... it's gonna take practice. And there may be more than one way to skin that cat. You may have to get with other people first to get there. Yeah. That's the power of the body. That's the power of there's safety- Yeah ... in a multitude of counselors, right? But it's possible. The power of connection.

Yeah. It's so beautiful. what would you hope to share with our listeners that we haven't already touched on today? If anything or even just a reminder, like take us back, sum it up. What would you like to say? The only thing that's coming to my mind is Psalm 37 Okay. Verse three.

 this is something I've been meditating 

[00:54:00] on and this is what I've had to practice, to remind myself when I don't feel safe. and it says, "Trust in the Lord and do good. Then you will live safely in the land and prosper." Mm. And so that first part, it's all about trusting in God, and He knew we're not gonna give Him 100% of trust as soon as we give Him our yes.

Yeah. Because He knows this is gradual. This is a relationship we're building together. Yes. And He leads the way. Yes. And so with each little step we take, that's a growth in trust. Yes. And when things arise, and I think that's why Paul does say, "Count it as joy when trials and problems come," because they are.

That's life. But this is an, a moment where I can grow and practice my trust. Yeah. 'Cause it takes time, and the 

[00:55:00] Lord knows that. But as we continue to do good, and do good is,very broad. but that's where he says, "Then you will live safely in the land and prosper." Other versions say we dwell in the land.

Yeah. or, and dwell in safe pasture, reminding that, hey, He's the good shepherd. Yeah. And if you further go down, we love this scripture. We like to take it out. 'cause right below it it says, "Take delight in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart." And we're like, "Well, I like that one."

You know. Hey. Yeah. but the big question is, are you taking delight in the Lord- Yes ... first? Yeah. Are we trusting Him? Are we delighting in Him? Yeah. Because when our trust and our delight is in the Lord, that's where we can flourish. Yeah. That's where we feel connected and safe. Yes. Yeah. It, it reminds me of Isaiah 26:3, which is one of my favorites.

"Thou will keep him in perfect peace whose mind 

[00:56:00] is stayed on thee- Yes ... because he trusts in thee." And that is a- Yeah ... process. Think about it. When y- what is your mind stayed on? You know, there's muscle memory. again- Mm-hmm ... we have to create the new neural pathways. Yep. And it's a lot of practice.

 trusting in the Lord, it's a lot of, it's a lot of practice. But I tell people, the uncomfortable, every uncomfortable step you take in the pathway of faith- When you follow the nudge, you are building your bold. I tell people- Right ... if you're sitting there and you're waiting to feel the bold before you step, you have missed it That isn't how God's kingdom works.

You don't get to feel it first, then do it. Yeah. You don't get to understand it first, then do it. That's not faith. Mm-hmm. When you choose to step in the direction that you believe is the Lord, 

[00:57:00] that's faith. You can't see where you're going, but then He starts to bring revelation. Understanding comes after obedience.

Confidence comes after the exercising. Yeah. That ... I mean, think about it. If I... I used to be a personal trainer. If my people came in the door and didn't have to lift a single weight and then were gonna be strong, they wouldn't have had to hire me- Yeah ... as their trainer. Yeah. we've got a lot of people genuinely desirous to follow the Lord.

They love Him truly, but they've not been willing to get uncomfortable. They've not been willing- Yeah ... to step outside of their comfort zone. And in doing so, they're not giving the Lord permission to build the bold, to, to bring them into their true identity in the Lord. He wants to restore us back to Eden.

He wants to restore- Yeah ... us back to before the Fall. He wants- Yeah ... to restore us back to the inheritance that we had before the Fall 

[00:58:00] took us out of that connection. Mm-hmm. This is what- Yeah ... He is doing. This is what He wants to do in your life and in mine. And so we gotta give- That's right ... Him permission.

But it's kinda hard when you've thought all along that His heart and His motives were one thing, when they're actually another. Yeah. And so today's episode, and all of the episodes leading up to today, it's all about us creating awareness for the audience to begin to go, "Wait a minute. This- Yeah ... there's something to this."

Mm-hmm. "And I need to find out more." So on that note, Emily, tell us a little bit about your equippedcoaching.com website, and, how can people get ahold of you? what's your services that you provide? ... With Equipped Coaching, it's me and a coworker. We originally were with Maranatha Family Counseling.

So I am a licensed pastoral counselor, and she 

[00:59:00] is also a licensed, um, counselor as well. And we went into this side of coaching. She deals more with anxiety, and we notice that anxiety and ADHD go hand-in-hand. She has some excellent resources for any kind of moms that are struggling with anxiety or have anxious kids.

For me, I do, as of right now it's still growing, but I offer one-on-one ADHD coaching. And, we sit down, week by week or whatever works best for you, and we w- work through strategies and provide tools, and this better understanding of how God created us, how your brain works, how He designed you to function.

But then also coming at it from everything that we talked about, because a big part of is what do I believe about myself? Amen. And what do I believe about God? And really 

[01:00:00] looking at the truth of who He is and who- Yeah ... you are hidden within Him. That's right. That's right. and some practical stuff as well, 'cause a, a lot of the c- a lot of the clients I have, they come to me, they've been recently diagnosed.

 and we're looking at, like, not only the biological, physiological side to help us understand, oh, okay, some of this is because there's hormonal changes that are happening. That affects a lot of things that we don't realize that it does. Amen. What are our daily habits look like? Um, how to be good stewards of our attention.

Mm-hmm. Um, and just some, strategies and tools to help us be better stewards of that, 'cause that's really what it is how to hone in, like what you said, hone in and focus on where that attention is going. I think of it like a budget. Like- Yeah ... we have money. Our money comes and goes, but our attention is the same way.

How are we budgeting our attention? So good. Where is it going? So good. 'Cause if we 

[01:01:00] don't know where it's going, then that, we can't be good stewards of it. So good. And so little things like that are just w- helping walk alongside, someone with ADHD and helping them better understand themselves, but also better understand the Lord.

So good. the scripture that I feel the Lord nudging me with right now is, "If you have faith as small as a mustard seed." So again, you only need to bring the amount that you have to give today. That's right. You only need to start there, and you can move a mountain. Mm-hmm. And I really believe that He was saying that mountain doesn't necessarily move overnight, right?

It's bring the faith that you have today, the amount, even if it's as small as a mustard seed. You're bringing something. And Scripture says He delights in small beginnings. He rejoices- Yeah ... that the work gets started. Yeah. And so if you come 365 

[01:02:00] days bringing faith as small as a mustard seed, how much of a chunk out of the mountain have you brought?

It's- Yeah ... it's significant, and He is a multiplier. So that's the other thing is, He does immeasurably more than we could ask or imagine. Yeah. That's a- Yeah ... that's a hard concept for a lot of us who think we have to live small. I love that you mentioned that, 'cause that was literally the Lord brought that to my heart, too, about the mustard seed.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. and when you mentioned that, I had, the biggest smile on my face, 'cause I'm like, "Praise God." It's so sweet. Praise God. Yeah. He is so sweet. Would you be comfortable saying a little prayer for us before we close out? Yeah, absolutely. Oh, thank you. anything specific that we can pray with over our audience?

I just keep hearing only believe. Yeah. It's so hard, though. But yeah, no, just whatever comes to your spirit- Okay ... truly. Okay. Let's pray. Jesus, 

[01:03:00] we're so thankful for you. We're thankful for your love and for your goodness and your kindness. Lord, we're thankful that you are the true vine, and that we simply have to come, and you will do the pruning, and you will take care of us, Lord.

We just have to allow you to take care of us. And so Lord, I pray over our hearts and our minds today, that first, if we're struggling with that, we're struggling just allowing your love in, I pray that you would begin to soften our hearts and our minds, Lord, and get us back to that connection, and that not only will we know your love, Lord, but we can experience the fullness of your love that you have for each and every one of us.

I pray that you would begin to open our eyes to see you correctly, to be able to see you for who you really are, and that we can learn to 

[01:04:00] understand your character as we take it by step-by-step, Lord, as we walk with you. Give us strength, give us encouragement, Lord, as we take these steps of faith, knowing that all it takes is something as small as a mustard seed.

Mm-hmm. It's a simple yes. And so Lord, right now, I pray that as you're stirring up the hearts of those that are listening, Lord, that they would truly believe that their yes, no matter how small that yes is, is enough. Amen. Because you are able to take that yes and do immeasurably more than we can ever ask for or imagine.

Lord, you said that those who be- that when you finish or started a work, that you will bring it to completion. Yes. So we don't have to worry about the outcome. We just have to focus on, what are my efforts? Yes. Am I giving it my best? And if we're giving it our best, then Lord, we can trust that you will take 

[01:05:00] care of the rest.

Yes. Because you are a good father. You are a just king. Amen. You have so many different avenues of your character, and we're so thankful, Lord, that you are perfect in every way. And so we just come to you with humble hearts, asking, Lord, for your help. Help us to see you correctly, and in turn, see ourselves correctly.

Yes, God. And we welcome your correction. We welcome your authority. And we just say, hey, let your will be done, because we truly want to believe that your way is better. And so Lord, we thank you, we love you, and we ask these things in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. Well, sis, I hope the conversation today gave you some language and some hope, and maybe even a little permission to 

[01:06:00] stop calling yourself broken and start asking God, "Lord, what are you showing me about how you made me? About how you love me, and about how you want to lead me?" Because whether you relate more to the perfectionism patterns or the ADHD patterns, the fear of falling short, or ultimately the, the struggle to believe that God is truly safe, here's what I want you to know.

You're not alone, and you don't have to figure it all out at once. Just bring Him the mustard seed you have today

And if you're beginning to wonder whether perfectionism has been shaping the way you see yourself and your worth or even God, I want to invite you to take the Grace Scale Quiz. It's a simple tool I created to help you begin identifying where perfectionism might be showing up in your life and in your faith.

You can find it on my website again at leneepezzano.com. I'll drop it in the show notes. And while 

[01:07:00] there, you can catch up on previous episodes and explore other resources. let's get you started on the journey

of how to live the freedom of God's grace instead of the exhaustion of performance. I really appreciate you being here, friend. Until next time, remember, God's not waiting for you to become perfect before He draws near. He's here now. He's gentle now. And He is a safe place